The 2014 Proms Season - what are your thoughts and feelings?

[gurnemanz]

I've just taken a look at my copy of the 1971 Proms Guide (the earliest I have) and the BBC SO had an astonishing work load: 26 concerts out of 54. Most of these were conducted by Colin Davis and Pierre Boulez and it shouldn't be forgotten that in those days (as far as I am aware) principals did not share positions. The other BBC orchestras just had just one concert each except for the BBC Northern (later BBCPO) who never came at all! Moreover, some of the BBCSO concerts were on consecutive days. At the time all of this was by no means unusual as successive guides reveal.

The number of concerts (54) makes much more sense to me. The Proms season has become bloated with too many late night and pop acts. I'd be fully in favour of a return to something like the proportions of that 1971 season but with less of the work carried out by the BBCSO! They must have been exhausted by the Last Night!

My preference then is for all pop acts to be ditched; late night events more strictly rationed; no 6.30 starts; only the cream of foreign orchestras to be given a platform; a return to the BBCSO working with the best conductors of the day and slightly increasing their workload and last but not least, for the season to be very slightly shortened.

I agree with all that. I found 1968 (52 concerts) and 1970 (53 concerts) so the seeds of bloat were already being sown. Colin Davis conducted 14 and 12 respectively. I can certainly remember turning up to see the same faces in the orchestra time after time.

6.30 starts are bad for those of us who drive in and park. Parking restrictions end at 6.30 in Queen's Gate. We're too tight to actually pay to park and got a comeuppance this year when, following a minor oversight, our car got photographed, resulting in a £60 fine.

I would also have no pop singers ...... OK, if they got Bob Dylan I would show up .... but am happy with occassinal excursions into stage musicals and maybe some "world music". I remember greatly enjoying this concert which included a gamelan group

[Petrushka]

I agree with all that. I found 1968 (52 concerts) and 1970 (53 concerts) so the seeds of bloat were already being sown. Colin Davis conducted 14 and 12 respectively. I can certainly remember turning up to see the same faces in the orchestra time after time.

6.30 starts are bad for those of us who drive in and park. Parking restrictions end at 6.30 in Queen's Gate. We're too tight to actually pay to park and got a comeuppance this year when, following a minor oversight, our car got photographed, resulting in a £60 fine.

I would also have no pop singers ...... OK, if they got Bob Dylan I would show up .... but am happy with occassinal excursions into stage musicals and maybe some "world music". I remember greatly enjoying this concert which included a gamelan group

It should also be remembered that concerts were not given on a Sunday until quite recently (not sure of the year) so the bloat factor would taken hold then. The mentality that has afflicted the Olympics in the last decade or two now seems to be the norm: each one must be bigger and better than the last. The time surely comes when this philosophy hits the buffers.

Let's hope that the new Controller, once appointed, gets a grip and does some pruning.

[Hornspieler]

It should also be remembered that concerts were not given on a Sunday until quite recently (not sure of the year) so the bloat factor would taken hold then. The mentality that has afflicted the Olympics in the last decade or two now seems to be the norm: each one must be bigger and better than the last. The time surely comes when this philosophy hits the buffers.

Let's hope that the new Controller, once appointed, gets a grip and does some pruning.

Amen to that!

HS

[french frank]

It should also be remembered that concerts were not given on a Sunday until quite recently (not sure of the year) so the bloat factor would taken hold then. The mentality that has afflicted the Olympics in the last decade or two now seems to be the norm: each one must be bigger and better than the last. The time surely comes when this philosophy hits the buffers.

Let's hope that the new Controller, once appointed, gets a grip and does some pruning.

That is also my view, though I hesitate to pass it on to the Trust because I'm not sure a) whether it's commonly held by proms-goers or b) <shudder> how far the pop concerts actually subsidise the classical concerts. But if they do, they would surely only need to look at which classical concerts also sold out and ensure a balance between those and the less popular ones?

I do get a sense that everything strives to get 'Bigger and Better' but, please, a sense of proportion ... !

[PhilipT]

.. only the cream of foreign orchestras to be given a platform ..

This is the only part of Petrushka's post with which I disagree. I have sometimes had the feeling that, for the very top foreign orchestras, a Prom (which inevitably will be a stop on an international tour playing the same programme several times in the course of a few weeks) is 'just another day at the office' (though I would not say that about, say, the Leipzig Gewandhaus this year), while for a lower-ranking orchestra it can be a really big gig (perhaps, given the size of the Hall, their largest ever live audience) for which they play their hearts out.

[Petrushka]

This is the only part of Petrushka's post with which I disagree. I have sometimes had the feeling that, for the very top foreign orchestras, a Prom (which inevitably will be a stop on an international tour playing the same programme several times in the course of a few weeks) is 'just another day at the office' (though I would not say that about, say, the Leipzig Gewandhaus this year), while for a lower-ranking orchestra it can be a really big gig (perhaps, given the size of the Hall, their largest ever live audience) for which they play their hearts out.

You have a valid point and it's one I find myself sharing up to a point. For the Proms to remain with the great music festivals of the world it wouldn't do for standards to slip. Perhaps a good compromise is to invite the great orchestras as usual but to also invite a smaller number than this year from the second or third rank to avoid it looking like an exercise in budgeting cuts.

As I know you are a long-standing (!) Prommer I'm interested that you don't disagree on my points regarding the season being pruned. What was the general view down in the Arena concerning the ever increasing number of concerts?

[Hornspieler]

On looking through the full list of composers whose works were included in this years proms, I was struck by the absence of French compositions compared with those from Russia, Eastern Europe, Germany/Austria, Scandinavia and even Great Britain (although two birthdays rather distorted the British contribution)

We had:
Ravel (8) Berlioz(4) Rameau(2) and one each from Duruflé, Lully, Gounod, Chauson and that ghastly "Chapel in the Valley" Organ Symphony by Saint Saens.


Nothing from Bizet, Boulez, Debussy, Dukas, Dutillieux, Fauré, Jean Francaix, Messaien, Milhaud, Poulenc or Roussel.

So I propose on that "Compile your own Promenade Concert" thread, to redress the balance with an all French Programme. qv. (message #86)

Other French Composers that I have neglected to mention will no doubt be highlighted in replies on this thread.

Vive la France!

HS

[Ferretfancy]

I've been away on holiday for a couple of weeks, missing the last few nights of the Proms. Nevertheless, I managed to Prom for thirty performances, a few less than I usually manage. I thought it was a good season, in a sense it always is a good season, perhaps not exceptional this year. It was good to welcome some less familiar orchestras, notably the Borusan Istanbul Orchestra and the men and women from Melbourne. Other highlights for me were of course the Strauss operas and the two splendid nights with the Budapest Festival orchestra.
I do question some of the programme planning, although I realise that scheduling must be very difficult. One example was the Tuesday evening with the Budapest Orchestra performing Brahms 3 & 4 followed by a late night Missa Solemnis. I'm on my tired old feet all day doing a voluntary job on Tuesdays, and that was too much of a marathon for me.

All the points made about the Albert Hall acoustic and the merits and demerits of seating serve to remind me that the best place to hear the music is the Arena where the sound can be formidably good. As for the advantages of balancing using a stereo pair, have a listen to the recording of Mahler 8 under Horenstein made by Dave Stripp in 1959, the first stereo recording to be made from the hall. I say from, because the tape machine was in Portland place, the performance travelling down a pair of music lines. I remember rushing back to BH to hear the tapes, and we thought it marvellous. Listening to the CD remastering, I was still impressed, but it really would not do today. There is a sense of the acoustic of the hall prior to those mushrooms, but an awful lot of music is lost

I haven't yet heard any of the broadcasts on iPlayer, some were no doubt excellent, others less so. It's worth pointing out that the sound in the auditorium actually varies from night to night depending on the number of bodies soaking it up, how far back on the platform the players are placed, even the position of the platform itself, yes, it does alter according to requirements.

Roll on next year's prospectus !

[Radio64]

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