The 2014 Proms Season - what are your thoughts and feelings?

[antongould]

I thoroughly enjoyed the season and will be able to enjoy more of it than usual thanks to the new iplayer 30 day rule. Having now lived through a fair few Proms seasons on these and previous Boards I find the response to the programme, performances and overall management as predictable as the Last Night.
As has been mentioned before, IMVHO, there is an overemphasis on anniversaries. It is sad that Walton will now, probably, disappear for years. And how could they miss the 60th anniversary of Rubbra 6 ??

[Hornspieler]

You only have to listen to some of the BBC Legends CDs to see how good the sound quality was as achieved by the engineers on the night years ago. There is, for instance, a Dvorak 8 from Giulini and the Philharmonia recorded on the day of the Great Train Robbery in 1963 and it sounds absolutely superb. It could have been recorded yesterday only it's actually superior to yesterday. There are other similar examples.

As someone else said on another thread (forget who sorry) the stage is bristling with microphones, possibly 25 or more and that allows the engineers to fiddle with the controls. Has anyone noticed the staggering number of cables going from the hall to the OB vans? Wish I'd taken a photo.

All the experience that successive generations of BBC engineers have accrued has been thrown out of the window and it's sad to see. It should be back to basics with a stereo pair!

Hear, hear. A stereo pair and a space pair higher and behind is all that is needed.

HS

[EdgeleyRob]

Some memorable concerts and performances of course.
When you are a stay at home listener it is hard to ignore the over-hype and bobbins presentation

[Barbirollians]

Mediocre - far too many minor international orchestras - dreary programming and some second rate soloists .

[makropulos]

Mediocre - far too many minor international orchestras - dreary programming and some second rate soloists .

Yup. I think that would have to be my conclusion too. Some good concerts, of course - but really too few of them this year.

[jayne lee wilson]

Hear, hear. A stereo pair and a space pair higher and behind is all that is needed.

HS

In all sincerity -really!- please see my post #29 - it isn't so straightforward, and if you're going to discuss sound quality and the history of FM and webcasts, please be aware of the issues facing mastering and webcasting/broadcasting... the devil really is in the detail! With the poor response to enquiries from today's BBC, we never know just how many of those "bristling" microphones are in use on a given night...

FM radio has been distributed since the 1970s via 13-bit DIGITAL links across the UK, which ends up with 832 kbps resolution (416 PER CHANNEL) - about half that of CD. BUT dynamic compression ruins the effect, restricted to 30db max - CD is nominally 96db. AS the great Angus Mackenzie pointed out years ago, the FM potential is around 78db, if rarely achieved - 60 db is more practical, but we'll never hear that in the UK again...having lived with and loved some wonderful FM tuners, I lament the passing of their noble tradition.

DAB or Freeview at 192kbps mp2 is unkind to string tone, treble sweetness or complex counterpoint - the data capacity just isn't there.
... HDs at 320kbps AAC is very capable, but ONLY if there is no crude boosting of pps or excessive restriction on fffs!

I've been very critical of production values at times this season - but never underestimate the problems involved with live relays and different-sounding performers every night, and go in fear of judging today's webcasts by yesterday's remastered recordings on CD, especially given the problems many listeners used to suffer with insensitive FM tuners and the need for large Victorian bedsteads (aka FM aerials) on their roof...

[Hornspieler]

In all sincerity -really!- please see my post #29 - it isn't so straightforward, and if you're going to discuss sound quality and the history of FM and webcasts, please be aware of the issues facing mastering and webcasting/broadcasting... the devil really is in the detail! With the poor response to enquiries from today's BBC, we never know just how many of those "bristling" microphones are in use on a given night...

FM radio has been distributed since the 1970s via 13-bit DIGITAL links across the UK, which ends up with 832 kbps resolution (416 PER CHANNEL) - about half that of CD. BUT dynamic compression ruins the effect, restricted to 30db max - CD is nominally 96db. AS the great Angus Mackenzie pointed out years ago, the FM potential is around 78db, if rarely achieved - 60 db is more practical, but we'll never hear that in the UK again...having lived with and loved some wonderful FM tuners, I lament the passing of their noble tradition.

DAB or Freeview at 192kbps mp2 is unkind to string tone, treble sweetness or complex counterpoint - the data capacity just isn't there.
... HDs at 320kbps AAC is very capable, but ONLY if there is no crude boosting of pps or excessive restriction on fffs!

I've been very critical of production values at times this season - but never underestimate the problems involved with live relays and different-sounding performers every night, and go in fear of judging today's webcasts by yesterday's remastered recordings on CD, especially given the problems many listeners used to suffer with insensitive FM tuners and the need for large Victorian bedsteads (aka FM aerials) on their roof...

Good morning Jayne.

With respect, I think that we are singing from different song sheets.

You are writing about the quality of BBC transmission for Radio reception whereas Petrushka and I were writing about the surfeit of additional microphones when a concert is taking place.

Petrushka wrote:

[QUOTE[You only have to listen to some of the BBC Legends CDs to see how good the sound quality was as achieved by the engineers on the night years ago. There is, for instance, a Dvorak 8 from Giulini and the Philharmonia recorded on the day of the Great Train Robbery in 1963 and it sounds absolutely superb. It could have been recorded yesterday only it's actually superior to yesterday. There are other similar examples.

As someone else said on another thread (forget who sorry) the stage is bristling with microphones, possibly 25 or more and that allows the engineers to fiddle with the controls. Has anyone noticed the staggering number of cables going from the hall to the OB vans? Wish I'd taken a photo.

All the experience that successive generations of BBC engineers have accrued has been thrown out of the window and it's sad to see. It should be back to basics with a stereo pair! [/QUOTE]

To which I replied in my message #32:

Hear, hear. A stereo pair and a space pair higher and behind is all that is needed.

Those BBC Legends recordings of Silvestri and the Bournemouth Symphony orchestra were recorded in the Bournemouth Winter Gardens, using a stereo pair (AK 41s as I recall) and a space pair to capture the atmosphere and resonance. I know! I was there!

In my five years at BBC Bristol I was responsible for producing many recordings and live transmissions for Radio 3,

including:

Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Dartington String Quartet, Stanshaw Brass Band, Academy of the BBC - all fell within our remit.

And what did we use? A Stereo Pair (and a space pair in a concert hall venue).

What Radio 3 did to our programmes before transmitting them was neither our concern nor our business to enquire, but our basic requirement on the day of a stereo pair and a space pair (with a possible additional microphone for a soloist(s) is as valid today as it was then..*
HS

* Let me just expand on that a little:

If you are sitting in a concert hall, about eight rows back and in the centre, you are enjoying what the orchestra is playing through the medium of your own stereo pair - your ears. The receptors in your ears are omni directional; they can hear sound from all directions but obviously, the right ear hears more from its own side and the left visa versa. So you don't need a "Space pair" (another pair of ears on the back of your head) to pick up the atmosphere and ambience of the Concert Hall.

But a stereo pair of microphones are uni directional each one receives sound in what is known as a cardiode pattern with a fairly narrow angle of acceptance.
So the space pair of microphones to which Petruchka and I referred is available to add, (with discretion), the ambience and atmosphere of the concert hall itself - often using microphones which have what is known as a "figure of eight" pattern of acceptance.

Is that clear? The audio engineer adjusts his balance and volume input at his mixing desk, (overseen by the Producer) fashioning an output of stereo sound for further treatment before transmission.

Now you can see how this simple procedure can be quite impossible if the said audio engineer has a dozen or more extra individual microphones to balance into the mix to highlight the various players who are separately miked to give them prominence at particularly points in the score.

Nothing to do with what goes out on transmission - that's for someone else to deal with.

[Hornspieler]

Please re-read my post #37 for further clarification.

HS

[Stanley Stewart]

So refreshing to read Paul Driver's review of the Proms season in yesterday's Sunday Times, Culture magazine.

[Nick Armstrong]

So refreshing to read Paul Driver's review of the Proms season in yesterday's Sunday Times, Culture magazine.

For those unable or unwilling to scale the paywall, could you provide a synopsis?

[vinteuil]

For those unable or unwilling to scale the paywall, could you provide a synopsis?

... he thought it was brill.

[Serial_Apologist]

... he thought it was brill.

[pureimagination]

My personal thoughts and feelings? I really enjoyed some proms/works/conductors/musicians/singers/orchestras/composers and some were okay and some I didn't like. End of thread. Here's to 2015.

[Lento]

Did anyone hear the lampoon of R3 on R4's Now Show on Friday? Appallingly unfunny and out of touch

Not too keen on this programme's air of "aren't I so clever/funny" so tend to avoid. I accidentally turned on at precisely the bit you mention, and changed channels immediately.

[french frank]

What was the thinking behind the invitation to orchestras from far-flung corners of the globe to this year's Proms?

I suspect it was just a theme with orchestras such as those from Qatar and Istanbul coming from regions not usually associated with western classical music at all, so a Sort Of Message.

(Blotto) I have the impression of a great deal of later romantic music

Not long before he took the Proms over, RW presented his 'Perfect Playlist' in the D. Telegraph (2006) - his 10 favourite pieces. One is from the 18thc - Mozart's Jupiter, plus the Eroica which was about 1804. Of the remaining eight, seven dated from 1875-1935. The last one was Schumann's Overture, Scherzo and Finale of 1841. No Haydn, no Mahler, nothing later than Prokofiev's Romeo and Juliet.