Proms audience behaviour

[Flosshilde]

The problem is twofold. Firstly, the applause between movements at the Proms is not that of audiences being enthusiastic. If that were the case, the applause would be prolonged and would consist of the whole audience. Instead, one person politely applauds (presumably because they think the piece of the music they have been listening to is finished), followed by a smattering of others in the audience, until they realise that the music is not over.

Utter nonsense. You cannot possibly know why other people act in the way they do.

Secondly, if it were the case that it is now acceptable to applaud between movements, why does this never (or almost never) happen in other concert halls. I don't recall listening to Mahler 6 in say, the RFH or the Barbican, where there has been applause after the first movement. It only seems to happen at the Proms.

'cos they're all plebs & tourists & can't possibly know how to behave properly, like you do.

[Flosshilde]

the underlying psychological make-up of those who have fixed views interests me, though.

You mean the people who insist that you should never applaud between movements?

(which sounds rather like something from a potty-training manual)

[french frank]

You mean the people who insist that you should never applaud between movements?

No, I mean people with fixed views.

[Serial_Apologist]

I hear the sound of goal posts being moved...

[jean]

Utter nonsense. You cannot possibly know why other people act in the way they do.

It's quite easy to tell a spontaneous outburst of enthusiastic appreciation from a tentative I-think-this-is-what-I-am-supposed-to-do-now, which is what we usually get between movements.

The show-off who cuts in while the conductor's arm is still raised is something different, but equally disruptive.

[Padraig]

I hear the sound of goal posts being moved...

Politics again S_A?

[Bryn]

It's quite easy to tell a spontaneous outburst of enthusiastic appreciation from a tentative I-think-this-is-what-I-am-supposed-to-do-now, which is what we usually get between movements.

The show-off who cuts in while the conductor's arm is still raised is something different, but equally disruptive.

I entirely disagree. The show-off, such as the 'yeehoo' crier, who sounded off before the final chord of the first movement had died away, is/was disruptive. Those who, after his cry had itself died away, expressed mild amusement at his antics and/or politely applauded (either the orchestra - surely unlikely, given the poor performance, - or, again, his ejaculation), were no more a disruption than retuning in the orchestra or bout of throat clearing would have been. I assume, from his interjection before the movement had actually ended, the 'yeehoo' man must have been either an opera lover, a balletomane or a protestor.

[MrGongGong]

It's quite easy to tell a spontaneous outburst of enthusiastic appreciation from a tentative I-think-this-is-what-I-am-supposed-to-do-now, which is what we usually get between movements.

Do "we" ?
Where ?
Not everywhere .... and it's NOT easy at all
One if the things that is wonderful about human beings is the diverse ways in which they respond to sound
When I went to the Kabuki in Tokyo the performance was a cross between a solemn religious ritual and a football match , moving between in a seemingly random way.
When I have been to long concerts of Indian Classical music there is much vocal response from the audience

Some people don't like people and for them we have "HiFi"
Some people like the shared experience of concerts and for them we have things like The Proms

[Flosshilde]

A few years ago I went to a couple of performances at the Puccini Festival at Torre del Lago Puccini. During one a man was wandering round th audience selling wine (not by the glass). Most of the audience weren't distracted (I wasn't - just mildly amused & entertained by what I assumed was local custom); I think some of them ordered some.

[Bryn]

... When I have been to long concerts of Indian Classical music there is much vocal response from the audience. ...

A prime example was the first all-night Prom of North Indian music, devised by and lead by Ustad Vilayat Khan. Such vocal interjections were fairly frequent. One particularly appreciative one, came from Vilayat Khan's brother, Imrat, who was in the audience.

[Mary Chambers]

I once went to a Sydney Opera House performance of Cav and Pag, not my favourites at the best of times. The audience, mostly Italian, talked and commented loudly all the way through. I was shocked and rather amused. The opera house was fairly new at the time, so it was a long time ago.

The applause during ballets (at the end of solos and so on) gives the dancers a useful rest. Some of them milk it so they get as long a break as possible.

[Flosshilde]

The applause during ballets (at the end of solos and so on) gives the dancers a useful rest. Some of them milk it so they get as long a break as possible.

I would think that the same applies to applause after an aria, especially in bel canto operas.

[french frank]

A few years ago I went to a couple of performances at the Puccini Festival at Torre del Lago Puccini. During one a man was wandering round th audience selling wine (not by the glass). Most of the audience weren't distracted (I wasn't - just mildly amused & entertained by what I assumed was local custom);

At a WNO performance of Jephtha, during one of the most heart-rending moments (end of Act2), the barman (when there was a small bar at the end of the gallery) started busily laying out all his glasses ready for the interval, the continual chinking DID distract me and others sitting close by - and, yes, I did creep up quietly and ask him if he would mind waiting until the curtain went down. He undestood at once and waited.

And when Gongers writes:

One if the things that is wonderful about human beings is the diverse ways in which they respond to sound

Wouldn't that impy that all ways are equally valid, including being quiet at particular key moments? And wouldn't it be recognised that in a concert hall it isn't possible to have audible responses and silence simultaneously? And wouldn't a compromise be to encourage enthusiastic applause at some moments, and limit it at others?

[Bryn]

... wouldn't a compromise be to encourage enthusiastic applause at some moments, and limit it at others?

Indeed. Not during the music, but by all means between movements and at the end (unless specifically requested, whether verbally of by the actions of the conductor, to refrain until the end). I have attended many concerts and recitals where such requests have been made prior to performance, and honoured by all in the audience. I have also attended quite a few where applause between movements is welcomed and acknowledged by the performer(s). There is no set rule.

[jean]

Indeed. Not during the music, but by all means between movements and at the end (unless specifically requested, whether verbally of by the actions of the conductor, to refrain until the end).

The trouble is that the inter-movement applauders don't pay any attention even to what the conductor wants - I gave an example above of a conductor being more explicit than he should have had to be about what he thought appropriate:

This year at the RLPO season preview, we had the whole orchestra there, playing enticing bits of the coming season's repertoire. Before they played a single movement from a Tchaikovsky symphony, Petrenko told us that we were allowed to clap when it was over. Afterwards, he turned to the audience and said solemnly 'But please don't do it when we perform the whole symphony!'

You can be sure someone will ignore him, though.