On Gergiev and the WOfP

[Beef Oven!]

There are other huge threats to democracy, liberty and so on.
But Gergiev is very visible, and this is significant. The real dangers often lurk in the shadows.
Not easy necessarily to take on targets on a "biggest threat first" basis, especially when protest is diluted to effectively by the media.


Who is too chicken to talk about these concerns?

That elephant in the room is a bit more visible than Putin and Gergiev!

Who's too chicken? Most people, it seems.

[Honoured Guest]

In this season's Proms, which is the subject of this forum thread, what is the elephant in the room, please?

The substantive point, which has been made on this forum, is not that Gergiev is Russian, nor that he is a personal friend of Vladimir Putin. It is that he conducted a triumphal celebratory orchestral concert in the Crimea immediately after Russia had illegally annexed it from Ukraine by military aggression. And then he has the gall to be the regular conductor of an orchestra calling itself the World Orchestra for Peace. And to be welcomed by the BBC in this role, apparently without comment. I do not understand how this has happened. Although the BBC's ongoing employment of Jimmy Savile, supplying him with an ever-replenishing stream of victims, to the knowledge of many of its other employees, shows that the BBC has form here.

[teamsaint]

That elephant in the room is a bit more visible than Putin and Gergiev!

Who's too chicken? Most people, it seems.

the elephant in the room is visible.
But not all the threats are elephants, or very visible.
important to recognise what Gergiev represents here, without getting too distracted, I think.

[Beef Oven!]

..........And to be welcomed by the BBC in this role, apparently without comment. I do not understand how this has happened.

I think it's called cognitive dissonance

[Beef Oven!]

the elephant in the room is visible.
But not all the threats are elephants, or very visible.
important to recognise what Gergiev represents here, without getting too distracted, I think.

HaHa! Don't get distracted from the real world! That's dangerous!

[MrGongGong]

HaHa! Don't get distracted from the real world! That's dangerous!

What on earth has Peter Gabriel's studio got to do with the price of fish ?

[LHC]

In this season's Proms, which is the subject of this forum thread, what is the elephant in the room, please?

The substantive point, which has been made on this forum, is not that Gergiev is Russian, nor that he is a personal friend of Vladimir Putin. It is that he conducted a triumphal celebratory orchestral concert in the Crimea immediately after Russia had illegally annexed it from Ukraine by military aggression. And then he has the gall to be the regular conductor of an orchestra calling itself the World Orchestra for Peace. And to be welcomed by the BBC in this role, apparently without comment. I do not understand how this has happened. Although the BBC's ongoing employment of Jimmy Savile, supplying him with an ever-replenishing stream of victims, to the knowledge of many of its other employees, shows that the BBC has form here.

I think you are getting yourself confused. Gergiev, along with several other russian artists, signed a letter in support of the annexation of Crimea, but as far as I am aware he has not played any concerts, triumphalist or otherwise, there in the period since the annexation.

He did play a concert in South Ossetia (he is North Ossetian) in 2008 shortly after the Russian army had supported the Ossetians in their conflict with Georgia. Perhaps that is the concert you are thinking of.

[gurnemanz]

Facts are hard to come by but I know propaganda when I see it ("Putin killed my son" headline) and posturing such as D Cameron. None of this will worry Putin as long as Russia controls a third of the EU's oil and gas supply. What must be really worrying him is losing control of his people in Ukraine.

[Beef Oven!]

What on earth has Peter Gabriel's studio got to do with the price of fish ?

That's a damn fine question. I do hope it's only a starter for ten.

[teamsaint]

HaHa! Don't get distracted from the real world! That's dangerous!

as a lover of prog rock, you would certainly be the expert on that !!

[Beef Oven!]

as a lover of prog rock, you would certainly be the expert on that !!

I am not a lover of prig-rock. Expect communication from my reputational management team and solicitor, in due course.

[Beef Oven!]

I think you are getting yourself confused. Gergiev, along with several other russian artists, signed a letter in support of the annexation of Crimea, but as far as I am aware he has not played any concerts, triumphalist or otherwise, there in the period since the annexation.

He did play a concert in South Ossetia (he is North Ossetian) in 2008 shortly after the Russian army had supported the Ossetians in their conflict with Georgia. Perhaps that is the concert you are thinking of.

This seems nearer the mark.

[Beef Oven!]

Facts are hard to come by but I know propaganda when I see it ("Putin killed my son" headline) and posturing such as D Cameron. None of this will worry Putin as long as Russia controls a third of the EU's oil and gas supply. What must be really worrying him is losing control of his people in Ukraine.

Indeed.

[teamsaint]

I am not a lover of prig-rock. Expect communication from my reputational management team and solicitor, in due course.

oh, ok.
I must be mistaken.

http://www.for3.org/forums/showthread.php?5410-What-Rock-Pop-Jazz-rock-Fusion-Prog-Experimental-etc-album-are-you-listening-to&p=169155&highlight=genesis#post169155

[Beef Oven!]

oh, ok.
I must be mistaken.
http://www.for3.org/forums/showthrea...sis#post169155

Gimme a break!! I was 13 when I bought that album, more than 40 years ago!!