Pop goes the weasel

[french frank]

What other ways do you have in mind ?

The reason given by the BBC: that if you persuade Rufus Wainwright fans to attend a concert at the Proms they will come back to listen to other (classical) concerts at the Proms. Rather like persuading classical fans to attend a Charles Hazlewood concert at Glastonbury so that they will return for a pop concert.

Using the Proms to cater for fans of Michael Ball, Paloma Faith, Pet Shop Boys, 'Urban' music, Rufus Wainwright et al. seems to be shifting away from the concept of the Proms as a classical music festival. But for generating money, that's business.

[MrGongGong]

The reason given by the BBC: that if you persuade Rufus Wainwright fans to attend a concert at the Proms they will come back to listen to other (classical) concerts at the Proms. Rather like persuading classical fans to attend a Charles Hazlewood concert at Glastonbury so that they will return for a pop concert.

Using the Proms to cater for fans of Michael Ball, Paloma Faith, Pet Shop Boys, 'Urban' music, Rufus Wainwright et al. seems to be shifting away from the concept of the Proms as a classical music festival. But for generating money, that's business.

Not all of those examples are equal though.
Rufus Wainwright is a good example of someone who has worked at the ROH (and Verbier festival) as well as being at the Proms this year.
I do think people can be more sophisticated, teenagers who are into Radiohead are quite likely to go and hear the orchestral music written by mr Greenwood in the same way that Zappa fans would go to hear his work outside the genre of Rock music.
I do think there is a point to be made about SOME of these things but that's more to do with the dullness of the collaborations.

I thought all the Proms gigs were collaborative things ?

[gurnemanz]

If asked the simple question: Should the Proms put on rock/pop concerts? (Auntie showing her petticoats), my instant reaction would be to say no. The Beeb's argument quoted above by ff: "if you persuade Rufus Wainwright fans to attend a concert at the Proms they will come back to listen to other (classical) concerts at the Proms", does not convince me either. Conversely, I suppose it might just be possible that some classical fans with Prom season tickets might turn up for the Wainwright concert and decide they like him and go to another of his concerts.

I suppose another justification might be that a Wainwright concert in the Prom context might offer something interestingly different for his fans compared to a normal gig. The only Prom vaguely in this area that I have ever attended was the Folk Prom a few years ago which we did enjoy and it was interesting to see the performers in that context, but I still think I would rather have seen the same performers in a more traditional folk venue.

[MrGongGong]

Who were the audience for Rufus Wainwrights opera ?

(I don't know, I didn't see it)

I think its important to distinguish between those artists who ARE collaborating in interesting ways and those who the BBC might choose to get more bums on seats.

[french frank]

Not all of those examples are equal though.

I wonder which ones you think were 'less equal'. Your criteria might be different from other people's (whad-do-I mean, 'Might be' ? ;-)

Rufus Wainwright is a good example of someone who has worked at the ROH (and Verbier festival) as well as being at the Proms this year. I do think people can be more sophisticated, teenagers who are into Radiohead are quite likely to go and hear the orchestral music written by mr Greenwood in the same way that Zappa fans would go to hear his work outside the genre of Rock music.

This is where all the airy-fairy fuzziness comes. 'Why don't we try this? It might have this result.' And that's where research interest stops - 'We've had a good idea that we can sell but we really haven't a clue whether there are are benefits other than the obvious - selling tickets.'

I do think there is a point to be made about SOME of these things but that's more to do with the dullness of the collaborations.

I thought all the Proms gigs were collaborative things ?

Nothing unique in that about the Proms, surely?

I was really thinking about your point in Msg #73. As you, yourself, ruled out 'generating money, I wonder how you thought such concerts "help the Proms". Publicity?

[MrGongGong]

I was thinking about Rufus Wainwright
He seems to be the kind of musician (though i'm not a great enthusiast) that IS working in multiple genres in a focussed way.

I'm not sure that the Proms are in need of "help"

Classical music isn't dying and i'm sure that Mahler will survive

I would be interested in how many Zappa fans got into Boulez by listening to Zappa's orchestral music

Some experiments and collaborations (John Potter and Ambrose Field for example IMV) are wonderful and some are dire.

[Honoured Guest]

Maybe Rufus could give a little support to some deserving but little-regarded composer by, say, singing a new arrangement of a Haydn song as an encore.

[Rolmill]

Maybe Rufus could give a little support to some deserving but little-regarded composer by, say, singing a new arrangement of a Haydn song as an encore.

Ah, like Sting did for Dowland perhaps.....

[jean]

Did for in every sense of the phrase...

[bluestateprommer]

While perhaps not quite fully on topic with the original theme, just saw this blog post by Tim Smith of the Baltimore Sun that speaks about Ben Folds' work with orchestras of late:

http://www.baltimoresun.com/entertainment/arts/artsmash/bs-ae-ben-folds-bso-20140712,0,1216462,full.story

[Rolmill]

Did for in every sense of the phrase...

You might think that, I couldn't possibly comment.....(just been trying to interest my teenage kids in House of Cards: nothing doing, unfortunately).