Pop goes the weasel

[teamsaint]

"A man from the future" seems to be an orchestral piece about Alan Turing. A good old fashioned concept piece.........


I would imagine the lack of a sell out is due to the time slot as much as the content of the show. A Pet shop boys regular show, mid evening,with or without orchestra, would surely sell out?
They play sell out shows at places like the O2.

Perhaps, just perhaps, this show will be musically interesting. I hope so. But I'm not holding my breath.

[french frank]

I think that is probably what most folks you meet would say

In the way 'most people' would say that Katherine Jenkins is an opera singer.

If you played someone who was unfamiliar a piece by Palestrina followed by a piece by Mahler followed by a piece by Xenakis they are likely to say that they are all "classical music".

As would I, in the broad sense, which recognises the various evolutionary changes from era to era.

What is, and what isn't "Classsical Music" changes (unless, of course, one means music from the "Classical Period").

My point exactly.

Is all music with a singer and guitar "pop" music ?

No, it would be rather more likely to be folk music, or world music. Depends on the guitar. But I can't off-hand think of anything I would call 'classical music' I.e. written for guitar and voice, other than, at a stretch, the lute repertoire.

I don't think that there's anything intrinsically wrong with "an agenda" as long as it doesn't exclude things which would otherwise be heard.

Exactly the criticism of Radio 3 - that anything of an informative nature for an already 'informed' audience is excluded because it frightens away the 'uninformed'. So there is no depth to the contexualisation/presentation, and increasingly fewer people at the station, apparently, in a position to provide that depth.

So the absence of Haydn is no big deal really, but the total absence of pieces like Havergal Brian's Gothic Symphony can only really find a home at festivals like the Proms.

No. The absence of both is a 'big deal'.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

This pathetic attempt to be cool, inclusive, modern, broad-minded... add your own description… is doomed to failure, just as it has failed for the last half-century.

Meeting someone halfway works only if both parties take it seriously. The message this is sending is not "Coming to this Prom has been a good experience - why not come to some different ones", but "At last the Proms are beginning to move this old-fashioned stuff out of the way, replacing it with the music of today".

[mercia]

Britten's opus 58 are for voice + guitar. There must be other examples.
Dodgson's Four Poems of John Clare

[MrGongGong]

The message this is sending is not "Coming to this Prom has been a good experience - why not come to some different ones", but "At last the Proms are beginning to move this old-fashioned stuff out of the way, replacing it with the music of today".

"Music of today"

[Mary Chambers]

Britten's opus 58 are for voice + guitar. There must be other examples.]

There are, of course, guitars and guitars......

There are a few pieces that I think were written for Julian Bream - Walton's Anon in Love was another of them. Pears and Bream recorded a disc of music for voice and guitar, but I don't think it would have gone down very well at a pop concert. Britten's Op 58, Songs from the Chinese, was written for them. Not pop music! (I use the term 'pop' loosely, as I use 'classical'.)

[Honoured Guest]

Prom 8: Tennant & Lowe; Niles; Badalamenti; Helbig has now sold out, just as I tried to buy seated tickets. Grr!

[Richard Tarleton]

There are, of course, guitars and guitars......

There are a few pieces that I think were written for Julian Bream - Walton's Anon in Love was another of them. Pears and Bream recorded a disc of music for voice and guitar, but I don't think it would have gone down very well at a pop concert. Britten's Op 58, Songs from the Chinese, was written for them. Not pop music! (I use the term 'pop' loosely, as I use 'classical'.)

Footnote: Britten's Songs from the Chinese and his Folk Song Arrangements (for guitar), Walton's Anon in Love, Seiber's Four French Folk Songs, Fricker's O Mistress Mine and the Britten Nocturnal Op 70, are gathered together on a lovely Bream/Pears disc by Newton Classics, 8002095 (an imprint of Naxos I think). I heard Pears and Bream do the Britten and Seiber (plus lute songs) on a summer night in the QEH in 1972 .

Julian would have been playing a classical guitar by José Romanillos at the time. The concert was definitely "unplugged" .

[Honoured Guest]

I confess I had forgotten that the Radio Times wasn't owned by the BBC any more, and I am far too unworldly to think in terms of sales.

I'd have thought most people who read it buy it every week, or have it delivered, as I do. I can't think a photo of Gareth Malone will cause a sudden rush in one-off sales.

A lot of people do what you do. I do also, because it's the best for listings for radio.

A lot of other people buy a tv listings magazine regularly (or occasionally) dependant on that week's feature content. The Radio Times is the most expensive of the lot, and some are very much cheaper, so its sales fluctuate with the popularity of the cover, which advertises that issue's feature content.

Some people only buy Radio Times (or any listings magazine) when that particular edition has "essential" programme details, e.g. at Christmas or during the Olympic Games. I suppose there may be one or two who will exceptionally buy this annual issue for the Proms Season Guide!

[Zucchini]

This pathetic attempt to be cool, inclusive, modern, broad-minded... add your own description… is doomed to failure, just as it has failed for the last half-century.

What do you mean by failure? How do we recognise it?

Filling seats that are empty at 10.15 at night, letting people enjoy some different concerts in a central London venue that is well suited to their music, generating extra revenue that can help fund the great orchestras/soloists/conductors in the main schedule seems perfectly sensible when there's not much money to play with.

And if you intend to go to the 7.30pm offering I'm sure the stewards will make sure you don't encounter any of the great unwashed.

What a daft discussion. Nothing's happened yet.

[jean]

...its sales fluctuate with the popularity of the cover, which advertises that issue's feature content.

Is there evidence for this?

What happens when they do alternative covers? Do they monitor which ones do best? Are there records of people buying them all?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Filling seats that are empty at 10.15 at night, letting people enjoy some different concerts in a central London venue that is well suited to their music, generating extra revenue that can help fund the great orchestras/soloists/conductors in the main schedule seems perfectly sensible when there's not much money to play with.

That alone makes sense. But don't imagine it will help the Proms in any other way.

[MrGongGong]

That alone makes sense. But don't imagine it will help the Proms in any other way.

Surely people going to concerts, regardless or what time, or what the programme is "helps" the Proms?
I think some folks (and i'm not suggesting that YOU are doing this!) seem to think that the only reason for having "non-classical" music at the Proms is to generate money.

[french frank]

I think some folks (and i'm not suggesting that YOU are doing this!) seem to think that the only reason for having "non-classical" music at the Proms is to generate money.

Which would be rubbish, of course. They're there to provide concerts for people to whom the programmes appeal. Though one has yet to hear any evidence that they 'help' the Proms in any other way.

[MrGongGong]

Which would be rubbish, of course. They're there to provide concerts for people to whom the programmes appeal. Though one has yet to hear any evidence that they 'help' the Proms in any other way.

What other ways do you have in mind ?