Proms

[CallMePaul]

Back on my hobbyhorse - rather than reduce the Proms, spread it around the country a bit. It may look like tokenism, having a weekly BBC Proms concert around the country: Glasgow, Edinburgh, Cardiff, Belfast, Birmingham, Newton-le-Willows (just to save argument ), Leeds, Gateshead and Bournemouth, but it would be a step in the right direction, just as long as they don't have pop-up studios in all these venues.

Is there a suitable venue in Newton-le-Willows (or for that matter Warrington, Wigan or other town roughly midway between my home city and my current place of abode?

[amateur51]

Is there a suitable venue in Newton-le-Willows (or for that matter Warrington, Wigan or other town roughly midway between my home city and my current place of abode?

[mercia]

what goes on at Parr Hall ?

[gingerjon]

yes the cinema audiences, which have been shown to be a new market for opera audiences.

Has that been done for any Proms concert yet?

[Petrushka]

Is there a suitable venue in Newton-le-Willows (or for that matter Warrington, Wigan or other town roughly midway between my home city and my current place of abode?

Will Haydock Park racecourse do?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Is there a suitable venue in Newton-le-Willows (or for that matter Warrington, Wigan or other town roughly midway between my home city and my current place of abode?

No, of course not. I just knew there'd be an argument if I suggested either Manchester or Liverpool.

[Ariosto]

That's not it at all Flossie. i just see the 'let's spread it about' school of thought as being poorly thought out in terms of 'bums on seats' including tourists, and in terms of venues. For example in Wales it is inevitable that the concerts would go to Cardiff where all the infrastructure money has been spent for decades, rather than going anywhere near the North. Concert-goers in the North and Mid-Wales would be expected to go to Manchester/Liverpool or to Birmingham, I imagine. All you'd be doing is swapping one set of 'disgruntlements' for several more and significant expenditure and no apparent benefits.

I rarely attend Proms concerts, despite having lived in London for over 40 years. The Hall is uncomfortable, frequently a sauna in hot weather if we get any, and without easy access to useful public transport. Getting home to North West London by bus can be a nightmare. The catering is expensive.

For me the answer is to broadcast all concerts on radio as now and also to increase significantly the number of TV broadcasts and yes the cinema audiences, which have been shown to be a new market for opera audiences. My radio/TV are not in London, they're in my living room. They'd be there for concerts broadcast from Bodelwyddan and Kirkcudbright too

Later: I've forgotten to mention the incredible disparity in acoustics according to where you sit - a nightmare But it does hold over 5,000 people

Gosh Ams, you mean they have electricity in Willesden Green now?! Things have come up from when I was there knocking off my girlfriend - they only had straw mattresses then ... (Apologies to "you know who" for my sexist remark ... a thousand Hale Maries ... lashings at the steak ...)

[Prommer]

Gosh Ams, you mean they have electricity in Willesden Green now?! Things have come up from when I was there knocking off my girlfriend - they only had straw mattresses then ... (Apologies to "you know who" for my sexist remark ... a thousand Hale Maries ... lashings at the steak ...)

Does anyone know a Marie who wasn't hale (and hearty)? Especially when in Willesden Junction with the lights off.

Sadly though, the same cannot be said for my girlfriend, who is now 93 and cannot see even with the lights on. (So that's ok then: Ed.) She herself is best appreciated in the dusk with the light behind her, as Mr Gilbert would have put it (sexistly), having no fondness for matrons.

And I like lashings of garlic butter on my steak, in case you're wondering.

[Ariosto]

[maestro267]

Excited about the season ahead! The thing I noticed most is the amount of obscure and new violin concertos that have been programmed. It'll be great to hear William Mathias' concerto in what would've been his 80th birthday year.

Other concerts that grabbed my attention include Berio's Sinfonia and Shostakovich 4 (my brain will be fried after that one!), and Mahler 3 on the final Thursday of the season. The First Night is always special, no matter what is programmed, and it'll be good to hear The Kingdom, as I've never heard it before.

[Lento]

The opening of Elgar's "The Kingdom" must, like that of VW's Sea Symphony, be one of the really great ways to launch a Proms season: it is in my books, anyway. The archive shows a prom performance of the Elgar in 1999 (not the First Night), then nothing since 1952?

[Petrushka]

The opening of Elgar's "The Kingdom" must, like that of VW's Sea Symphony, be one of the really great ways to launch a Proms season: it is in my books, anyway. The archive shows a prom performance of the Elgar in 1999 (not the First Night), then nothing since 1952?

I've never heard The Kingdom, though I do have the Boult recording never played . I hope to be in the hall on July 18 and will finally get the Boult recording played!

[Demetrius]

On first general perusal I would call it the Essential Breakfast Proms, full of RW's favourite old warhorses. The annual insult to an anniversary composer that RW dislikes this year Andrzej Panufnik, his daughter gets a piece though! The usual dangling carrots to the British music lovers, this year my favourite Violin Concerto the Moeran (expected after the recent successful recording), nicely paired with Walton in the first half, but lumbered with a new commission and the overplayed Enigma Variations in the 2nd half, won't waste my money on half a concert. The same with the Mathias. The Alwyn and RVW Job, is about the only Prom to go to for me, would have been far better if the Moeran was paired with Job. As for the rest, American music, the same hackneyed bits of Essential Breakfast Copland plus Reich and Adams. The Rachmaninov Bells would have been good to hear live, but its lumbered with the 1812 Overture, so again a half concert only. Why all the b#**%$ Mahler and Ravel? No Bruckner, Haydn (totally disgraceful) or Mendelssohn, let alone Hindemith, Martinu, Roussel etc etc A composer I would have liked to have seen with the WW I anniversary would have been Cecil Coles, his loss was for me of far greater significance than Butterworth.

Thank God RW is going, hopefully something more interesting next year and a Mahler free Proms!

And instead of Mahler we can have a David Diamond Cycle to celebrate his 100th Birthday and commemorate the 10th anniversary of his death

The dangling carrot is rather huge this time around though,
with Walton (Symph, Viola and Violin Concerto, etc) , Peter Maxwell Davies, John Tavener, Harrison Birtwistle and Vaughan Williams (Symph 3,4 and Job); Elgar also receives in his fair share.

While there is no Haydn, Mozart has been recovered from semi-oblivion. Bruckner and Mendelssohn are left out for a year, but I doubt that they will descend into lasting disfavour. If every big name gets his outing every year, imaginative and unusual programming will be even tougher to do.

All in all, the season is mostly balanced and manages to cater to a lot of different areas of interest. But it seems to concentrate on a smaller number of composers. 17 Pieces of Richard Strauss, with 3 full operas, spread over 13 Proms. Or Ravel, a birthday boy of sorts. Or Mahler, without any anniversary going on that I'm aware of.

Therefore, if you dislike one of these focus composers, too bad for you (Got that last year with Wagner, too). And yet when you look past the composer hit-or-miss game, the pieces played are not only warhorses, there is actually a good mix of un- or less well known and known music.

The non-classical/special interest/Children proms include the 2 usual children ones, Pet Shop Boys, 4 for Jazz/Urban Music and arguably Kiss me Kate: 8 out of 88 concerts, which is about the same or slightly less than last year. (EDIT: Down from 13 last year.)

All in all, the same as 2013, with more British music, possibly a bit more baroque and french, and Richard Strauss as Wagner 2.0. Enough to pick out and like.

Wouldn't dare to call any visiting orchestra "third-rate" before listing to them. Can those who have problems with Qatar/Lapland orchestras shed some light on aweful performances they have witnessed?
There are big names in the visitors list - Gewandhaus, WEDO, Berlin Phil, Deutsche Oper Berlin, Budapest Festival Orchestra etc. I seriously doubt that the others are incompetent. So were is the problem?
In fact, what is different to the previous years is that there are more visitors, and less youth orchestras. Whether that is good or bad, we will hear.

Ps: MickyD - Rameau gets his outings in Proms 1, 17 and 39, so he is not completely forgotten

[amateur51]

Well said Demetrius!

[Pabmusic]

...A composer I would have liked to have seen with the WW I anniversary would have been Cecil Coles, his loss was for me of far greater significance than Butterworth...

You write as if this is the only chance we'll have to remember the Great War at the Proms. There's four more seasons of centenary to come (what a great idea to have started it and ended it within hailing distance of the Proms season - our thanks must go to Franz Josef and Wilhelm).

I'll be surprised if this is all we get, but there's already quite a lot in this programme, and not just the concert on August 17th.

I just hope (sincerely, truly) that the presentation can avoid projecting our modern-day feelings of horror and revulsion upon those who went through it. I suspect we'll be reminded that RVW was an ambulance driver* but will we be told that he was then commissioned in the heavy artillery (and enjoyed it so much that he insisted on directing the fire of his big guns lying down, even though he was ill at the time)? Artillery accounted for - by far - the greatest number of casualties in the war. Gustav Holst tried hard to enlist but was rejected because of his neuritis and short-sightedness. Adrian Boult, too, because he had a weak chest and was 'sickly' (!).

And as for GSKB - he enjoyed it all very much. He particularly liked the Durham miners who made up most of his company (as you might expect from an ex-folksong collector) - so down-to-earth and far removed from the prep school, Eton and Oxford that had been his own experience. In fact it is by no means certain that, had he lived, he would have returned to music rather than continue in the Army. Certainly RVW sensed this, though of course GSKB would have been hounded to write more. But he was rather strong-willed.

Things I should like to see included in future seasons would include some Gurney (the Five Elizabethan Songs were orchestrated by him); some Magnard (Fourth Symphony); some Cecil Coles and Ernest Farrar, and some Bridge (a true pacifist). Also, Morning Heroes by Arthur Bliss.

An intimate concert might include some Granados as a link for songs by the likes of W. Dennis Browne, Ivor Gurney, George Wilkinson and Willie Manson. There might even be some left-hand pieces commissioned by Paul Wittgenstein, or some organ music by Maurice Jephson, or some instrumental thing by 'Bunny' (Frank Purcell) Warren.

* [A good example of this modern-day tendency is the way that many people miss what lies behind "The lads in their hundreds" from A Shropshire Lad. It's not about regret that so many young men will 'die in their glory'. Housman's point is that those who will die are the lucky ones ("the fortunate fellows that now you can never discern") because they will 'never be old'. Therefore, they won't lose their youthful looks or their inner truth. That's a very different message than what many think it gives.]