Prom 74 - 6.09.13: Vienna Philharmonic

[edashtav]

And the first half?

A Fiat with one of the wheels not properly attached perhaps?

A Trabant, surely - it may have been rickety but it sure was German

[johnb]

Just as an aside it is sad to note that Maazel seems to appear on the podium and be universally condemned whereas Haitink could never and will never do anything wrong.

I have avoided Haitink. I find him dull, leaden-footed and inexplicably over-hyped.

I also used to have the impression of Haitink being somewhat dull. That was until I went to hear him conduction Mahler 6 live at a Prom about 10 years ago. A friend wanted to go and I was less than enthusiastic beforehand.

That concert (together with later concerts I attended when he conducted the LSO in various Shostakovich and Mahler symphonies) totally transformed my opinion of Haitink.

[edashtav]

I also used to have the impression of Haitink being somewhat dull. That was until I went to hear him conduction Mahler 6 live at a Prom about 10 years ago. A friend wanted to go and I was less than enthusiastic beforehand.

That concert (together with later concerts I attended when he conducted the LSO in various Shostakovich and Mahler symphonies) totally transformed my opinion of Haitink.

Haitink has matured wonderfully well in the last 15 years. I'm in total agreement,John.

[Richard Tarleton]

Haitink has matured wonderfully well in the last 15 years. I'm in total agreement,John.

He also blossomed in the 80's-90's into a great conductor of opera, and Wagner in particular. His Ring and Meistersinger at ROH were magnificent. Meistersinger even had a great production

[Hornspieler]

A Trabant, surely - it may have been rickety but it sure was German

Yes, like the Wartburg, manufactured in East Germany.
When we were in Leipzig for its eight hundredth anniversary, the 3rd horn from the Gewandhaus Orchestra gave me a lift to the Opera House in his new Trabant. He told me that it had cost him 3 years salary! I have never been so terrified in my life. I think the bodywork was made of cardboard.

HS

[cloughie]

Cloughie, hands up to being a Haitink fan (41 years and counting since I first heard him do Bruckner, including his first 8 at the Proms in 1972), but I've heard and enjoyed Maazel several times over a similar span (though never in Bruckner), even heard him conduct the VPO, and certainly didn't travel from W Wales for this my only live Prom this year expecting to be disappointed.

Not sure what you mean by objectivity. Obviously anyone's reaction to a performance is informed by knowledge of the work, experience of the work in performance and on record, state of mind on the day....My mood by 20.40 ish was not helped by the dismal first "half", so the VPO had some ground to make up. On paper it had looked like an interesting idea....

In the end the performance just failed to catch fire, for me. The last live 8 I heard was by a far less exalted orchestra (the BBC NOW), coached in this huge work by Walter Weller (himself a past VPO principal) and playing their socks off in an overwhelmingly exciting performance, in Swansea's Brangwyn Hall no less. The other night I heard a Rolls-Royce orchestra on cruise control.

Weller's time in the UK benefited a number of orchestras and your comments come as no surprise - I have many Weller recordings which I like!
Haitink's performances to me are safe and accurate but not in the exciting top 10!

[edashtav]

Yes, like the Wartburg, manufactured in East Germany.
When we were in Leipzig for its eight hundredth anniversary, the 3rd horn from the Gewandhaus Orchestra gave me a lift to the Opera House in his new Trabant. He told me that it had cost him 3 years salary! I have never been so terrified in my life. I think the bodywork was made of cardboard.

HS

When we stayed in Cracow a few years ago, our Hotel was on a major roundabout. We arrived on the day of a huge Trabant rally. Crossing the road by foot was impossible as freshly polished, highly decorated cars came gaily by, parmping their wheezing horns for what seemed like half a day. Perhaps, we should have dived across the road; from what you write, hs, the poor Trabant would have suffered more than the best of British!

[Beef Oven!]

Haitink has matured wonderfully well in the last 15 years. I'm in total agreement,John.

I wanted him to take over after Karajan, but I'm told he's a tad lazy to take on such a big job. He apparently said as much himself.

[Roehre]

I wanted him to take over after Karajan, but I'm told he's a tad lazy to take on such a big job. He apparently said as much himself.

Not much to do with laziness. Haitink lives for his music. Outside that there are not many things which seriously do interest him. He is not interested at all in managing an orchestra or a concert hall. That's what eventually lead to his departure in Amsterdam e.g. - the non-musical chores and the tensions surrounding these.

[Maclintick]

Expectations of a VPO/Bruckner 8 are bound to be stratospheric. I relished their idiomatic and burnished tones but agree with Ahinton & others that Maazel's interpretation fell at the finale hurdle. This movement is usually a graveyard for all but the most structurally-aware of Brucknerians (among whom I would count Wand & Haitink as exemplars) requiring precise control of tempi, string phrasing & dynamics if it's to succeed. In other words, it doesn't play itself & you can't do it on autopilot, even if you're flying executive class with the VPO ( best concert ever at the Proms, undoubtedly Bernstein Mahler 5 in 1987).

[Nick Armstrong]

(best concert ever at the Proms, undoubtedly Bernstein Mahler 5 in 1987).

As canvassed quite recently, no argument from duncan or me on that one, Mac

I've been attending The Proms since 1987 (Since you ask, Prom 63. It's been down hill ever since).

I was there in the arena, too That night was indeed about as good as it gets!

[Petrushka]

As canvassed quite recently, no argument from duncan or me on that one, Mac

Nor from me. I was in 'O' stalls that and the following night. The Abbado Beethoven 9 was no anti-climax after the Bernstein either.

[Hornspieler]

Nor from me. I was in 'O' stalls that and the following night. The Abbado Beethoven 9 was no anti-climax after the Bernstein either.

I remember hearing a performance of the 9th conducted by Bernstein*. Whether it was that one, I don't know, but it has stayed in my memory because it is the only time that the four soloists stayed in tune.

* Tonight we have the Verdi Requiem from the Edinburgh Festival. Have you heard Bernstein's recording? Magnificent!
HS