Prom 74 - 6.09.13: Vienna Philharmonic

[gedsmk]

Let's not forget the 2009 Prom with Franz Welser-Möst on the podium. In Haydn's Symphony No. 98, the players of the VPO barely glanced at him...

Does anyone remember the last time the VPO played at top class form (equal to RCO or BRSO) at a Prom, and who was the conductor?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Does anyone remember the last time the VPO played at top class form (equal to RCO or BRSO) at a Prom, and who was the conductor?

Last year's London and Alpine symphonies were a good example. The downside in the latter was the scrappy off-stage band, but that was London Brass, not the VPO.

[Petrushka]

Does anyone remember the last time the VPO played at top class form (equal to RCO or BRSO) at a Prom, and who was the conductor?

The two VPO Proms last year conducted by Bernard Haitink were superb. My most memorable pair of VPO Proms were the Bernstein Mahler 5 and Beethoven 9 under Abbado in September 1987. Two of the best Proms I've ever attended.

[Barbirollians]

I am firmly in favour of returning Beethoven 9 to the penultimate night of the Proms .

[marvin]

I am firmly in favour of returning Beethoven 9 to the penultimate night of the Proms .

I'm firmly in favour of binning it.

[Barbirollians]

It strikes me as a better penultimate concert than an international orchestra on autopilot.

[Keraulophone]

"Roehre

Quote Originally Posted by Petrushka:
'Somewhat puzzled by one of the Bach organ works in the first half. The Chorale Prelude Vor deinem Thron tret' ich hiermit BWV 668 isn't included in my Simon Preston complete set of the Bach Organ Works. Is there some doubt about its authenticity or have DG and Preston slipped up?
Can someone who knows these pieces better than I do offer an explanation?'

BWV 668 is beyond any doubt a work by Johann Sebastian (the autograph's 1st page still exists). Hence DG must have made a mistake here."

Strange. I don't have immediate access to the boxed set myself, but BWV 668 is included in its listing here.

...however, it is not included in the box. The notes in the Simon Preston DG boxed set reveal: "The final chorale [of the 'Eighteen'], Vor deinen Thron tret ich hiermit BWV 668, is incomplete and so it has been omitted from the present recording." The booklet lists the "Eighteen 'Leipzig' Chorales" from BWV 651 to 667 only.

This seems a very strange decision, since, although the copyist's MS survives only up to the middle of bar 26, Bach's sons incorporated their father's last composition in the Art of Fugue, so we have it complete in engraved form, albeit under the original title of the chorale Wenn wir in höchsten Nöthen sein (BWV 668a). Why couldn't SP have recorded this, as have so many others in their complete sets?

As for Maazel and Bruckner 8, I was worried that LM wouldn't begin to do justice to this pinnacle of the symphonic repertoire, whether he was glaring at the VPO or the Cornwall Youth Orchestra (well, maybe an angrier glare at them), and my fears were justified. Draco, RT, ah & others have said it all (above). Some of Maazel's grandstanding and pointmaking matched that on his dreadful Cleveland/Telarc recording of The Rite of Spring, which he woefully pulled apart, creating a sort of rhythmic soup.

And as for the organist of St Florian's, oh dear... perhaps the less said the better.

[cloughie]

Does anyone remember the last time the VPO played at top class form (equal to RCO or BRSO) at a Prom, and who was the conductor?

Many years ago Claudio Abbado on consecutive nights did excellent Schubert 9 and Bruckner 7. Just as an aside it is sad to note that Maazel seems to appear on the podium and be universally condemned whereas Haitink could never and will never do anything wrong. A little more objectivity would be welcomed. However Fridays concert appeared in the hall on Radio it sounded fine to me.

[cloughie]

All the Bruckner at this year's Proms was disappointing. Last night's No.8 was so slow that it was soporific.

Beautiful sounds are in the ear of the listener - to me Salonen, Petrenko and Maazel all delivered interesting performances.

[DracoM]

I have avoided Haitink. I find him dull, leaden-footed and inexplicably over-hyped.

[Richard Tarleton]

Just as an aside it is sad to note that Maazel seems to appear on the podium and be universally condemned whereas Haitink could never and will never do anything wrong. A little more objectivity would be welcomed. However Fridays concert appeared in the hall on Radio it sounded fine to me.

Cloughie, hands up to being a Haitink fan (41 years and counting since I first heard him do Bruckner, including his first 8 at the Proms in 1972), but I've heard and enjoyed Maazel several times over a similar span (though never in Bruckner), even heard him conduct the VPO, and certainly didn't travel from W Wales for this my only live Prom this year expecting to be disappointed.

Not sure what you mean by objectivity. Obviously anyone's reaction to a performance is informed by knowledge of the work, experience of the work in performance and on record, state of mind on the day....My mood by 20.40 ish was not helped by the dismal first "half", so the VPO had some ground to make up. On paper it had looked like an interesting idea....

In the end the performance just failed to catch fire, for me. The last live 8 I heard was by a far less exalted orchestra (the BBC NOW), coached in this huge work by Walter Weller (himself a past VPO principal) and playing their socks off in an overwhelmingly exciting performance, in Swansea's Brangwyn Hall no less. The other night I heard a Rolls-Royce orchestra on cruise control.

[Hornspieler]

Cloughie, hands up to being a Haitink fan (41 years and counting since I first heard him do Bruckner, including his first 8 at the Proms in 1972), but I've heard and enjoyed Maazel several times over a similar span (though never in Bruckner), even heard him conduct the VPO, and certainly didn't travel from W Wales for this my only live Prom this year expecting to be disappointed.


In the end the performance just failed to catch fire, for me. The last live 8 I heard was by a far less exalted orchestra (the BBC NOW), coached in this huge work by Walter Weller (himself a past VPO principal) and playing their socks off in an overwhelmingly exciting performance, in Swansea's Brangwyn Hall no less. The other night I heard a Rolls-Royce orchestra on cruise control.

I think I would go a little further and say "... a Rolls Royce firing on only seven of its eight cylinders"

HS

[Vile Consort]

How can anyone be objective about whether they like a particular conductor or not? Brain scans whilst listening?

Cue Mr Grew and a "Conductors variously rated" thread.

[Richard Tarleton]

I think I would go a little further and say "... a Rolls Royce firing on only seven of its eight cylinders"

HS

Incidentally for that Swansea Bruckner 8 the BBC NOW's horn section was beefed up by extra players including Jeffrey Bryant

[Vile Consort]

I think I would go a little further and say "... a Rolls Royce firing on only seven of its eight cylinders"

HS

And the first half?

A Fiat with one of the wheels not properly attached perhaps?