Prom 72 - 5.09.13: Verdi & Tchaikovsky

[amac4165]

The late concert of Schubert sonatas with Imogen Cooper and Paul Lewis was quite another matter, wonderful playing co-ordinated perfectly. These are both long works to stand through after standing for the earlier concert, but I was riveted at my last Prom of the year.

Indeed it was - savoir of the evening really. I never though I could be so riveted by an hour and 20 mins of piano music.

btw has anyone never orchestrated the "Grand Duo" ?

[marvin]

The orchestra last night was very disinterested, the looks on many of their faces during the Manfred told all. Now whether that is a combined dislike for the work or a dislike for their chief conductor, only time will tell. But, and I am sure Hornspieler will back me up on this, when the orchestra begins to play like this and look they way they do, then the conductor's days are numbered. She worked very hard, but for limited results. Unfortunately, I could only watch it on the box, so derived a totally different view of the whole thing, One needed to be in the hall. The planning of the first half was terrible. Why bother with such a truncated grand march from Aida at all?
The audience never really seemed to get going with the arias, until it was too late. Try as they ultimately did, no encore was forthcoming.

You have beaten me to it - snap!
I too have now watched my recording of this concert I listened to on Thursday night on R3. I don't think I have ever seen a bunch of disinterested musicians staring at their scores with such stony, bored faces with their body movements, for the main just frozen in postion. Poor old Xiang with all her commenable efforts resulting in a turgid performance. Talk about going through the motions which in this instance were of very high viscosity - treacle like. Not a concert that I shall be archiving this year!

[seabright]

I only caught the last movement of the Manfred but thought some of the playing was pretty ragged, certainly in comparison with last year's Jurowski/LPO Manfred.

Quite right johnb ... Jurowski achieved twice as much last year with half as much effort, as the You Tube upload of his finale shows only too clearly. In his performance there none of the flailing arms and bodily contortions evident in this year's performance, thank goodness, and the LPO was on absolutely cracking form ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag_wn7vXQyc

Of course, if any conductors, male or female, want to see the fantastic results that can be achieved with virtually no bodily movements at all, observe Beecham bringing the Queens Hall roof down with the Tchaikovsky 3rd Symphony finale ... This is how it should and can be done! ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JagoH8-7jw

[Sir Velo]

. I don't think I have ever seen a bunch of disinterested musicians staring at their scores

I wouldn't have a problem, particularly, with the musicians being "disinterested", although it seems a strange word to use. However, if they were "uninterested" that would be a different story.

[slarty]

I wouldn't have a problem, particularly, with the musicians being "disinterested", although it seems a strange word to use. However, if they were "uninterested" that would be a different story.

Well - let's not be pedantic about it - they were decidedly NOT interested.

Usage Note: In traditional usage, disinterested can only mean "having no stake in an outcome," as in Since the judge stands to profit from the sale of the company, she cannot be considered a disinterested party in the dispute. This usage was acceptable to 97 percent of the Usage Panel in our 2001 survey. But despite critical disapproval, disinterested has come to be widely used by many educated writers to mean "uninterested" or "having lost interest," as in Since she discovered skiing, she is disinterested in her schoolwork. Oddly enough, "not interested" is the oldest sense of the word, going back to the 17th century. This sense became outmoded in the 18th century but underwent a revival in the first quarter of the early 20th. Despite its resuscitation, this usage is widely considered an error. In our 2001 survey, 88 percent of the Usage Panel rejected the sentence It is difficult to imagine an approach better designed to prevent disinterested students from developing any intellectual maturity. This is not a significantly different proportion from the 89 percent who disapproved of a similar usage in 1988.

[Lancashire Lass]

Perhaps for those of you who watched on TV, Xiang's movements looked OTT, but from high in the circle she was like a tiny pocket of energy. Yes, she was using her body a lot, but she wasn't throwing herself all over the place -- it was all very disciplined.

I agree that the most important element is what the music sounded like. I'm not enough of a listener to be able to judge different performances of the same work, but what did impress me was -- when they struck up the first piece -- the crispness and clarity of the sound, as if every other orchestra I'd ever heard had been playing through a curtain of some muffling material.

That female timpanist was something else, though -- absolutely no nonsense, clean strikes every time and a very tidy way of laying down her drumsticks!

[Sir Velo]

The problem with using "disinterested" to mean uninterested is that you then no longer have a word which means to have "no interest in the outcome of something" - i.e. no vested interest. Most educated people would want to retain this distinction for purposes of clarity.

As you were.

[amateur51]

Of course, if any conductors, male or female, want to see the fantastic results that can be achieved with virtually no bodily movements at all, observe Beecham bringing the Queens Hall roof down with the Tchaikovsky 3rd Symphony finale ... This is how it should and can be done! ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JagoH8-7jw

Very impressive.

Of course we may not have seen the parts where Beecham was actually shouting exhortations at the brass, as in the live recordings of Sibelius symphony no 2 and Dvorak symphony no 8 **

And I greatly enjoyed the scene where Tommy is staring straight into the camera, lit by a spotlight.

I wonder who funded the first three months of the LPO's existence

** and the splendid off-air Brahms symphony no 3, part of the tribute concert for Toscanini

[Barbirollians]

Indeed it was - savoir of the evening really. I never though I could be so riveted by an hour and 20 mins of piano music.

btw has anyone never orchestrated the "Grand Duo" ?

Yes Joachim and as I recall it COE/Abbado recorded it .

[Hornspieler]

As you were.

Sounds like a drill sergeant shouting at a squad of new recruits!

Let's try "As were you"

Good morning everyone.

HS (Why shouldn't I be picky, like some others on these boards? )

[LaurieWatt]

I wonder who funded the first three months of the LPO's existence

The Courtauld family, I believe.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

btw has anyone never orchestrated the "Grand Duo" ?

In addition to the Joachim and Weingartner orchestrations that others have mentioned, a quick look at Wiki reveals that the work has also been orchestrated by Rene Liebowitz, Anthony Collins, Fritz Oeser, Marius Flothuis and Raymond Leppard (a complete performance of this last version is available on youTube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMlLVjkHGfE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAkr8YUIS8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf-GSbFiHi0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDK4xAHgG2M

[amateur51]

The Courtauld family, I believe.

I didn't know that, LaurieWatt - many thanks

[Barbirollians]

I enjoyed the Manfred - at least it wasn't a boring run through . The finale was very fine.

[Roehre]

In addition to the Joachim and Weingartner orchestrations that others have mentioned, a quick look at Wiki reveals that the work has also been orchestrated by Rene Liebowitz, Anthony Collins, Fritz Oeser, Marius Flothuis and Raymond Leppard (a complete performance of this last version is available on youTube):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMlLVjkHGfE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAkr8YUIS8g

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mf-GSbFiHi0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDK4xAHgG2M

Many thanks FHG
Never would have thought that that many people more (here 2 musicologists, 2 conductors and one composer/musicologist) would have done so.