Prom 59 - 26.08.13: Hollywood Rhapsody Prom

[Alain Maréchal]

Having just watched the televised prom, I have to enter a dissentient post: I can't understand the point of listening to the music separately from the film. It only points up just how thin and repetitive much of the music is (eg Ben-Hur) , disguised by lush orchestration, and aimed at an audience who weren't paying attention to it. The only pieces that worked on their own were Salammbo's aria, which is a pastiche, and Laura. Was there any point at all in playing that Tom and Jerry score? The section with the two 'vocalists' seemed to belong in a different concert.

I will say one thing for John Wilson - his dress sense puts some recent conductors to shame. All he needed was a carnation.

[Stanley Stewart]

I can only respond as a viewer when I say that, once again, John Wilson and his orchestra have delivered the goods with an exhilarating concert to match their work in the past four years. Energy, expertise and sheer enjoyment throughout and the interval feature demonstrated their range. Apart from Scott Bradley's hilarious madcap score for Tom & Jerry cartoons, perhaps my favourite moment in the concert was the Franz Waxman suite for "A Place in the Sun" (1951), based on Theodore Dreiser's novel, "An American Tragedy". The searing use of the saxophone reminded me of a sequence in the film when a young Elizabeth Taylor seduces the handsome Montgomery Clift in the billiard room with her alluring "Come to Mama, come" to the accompaniment of this fabulous score as she closes the door.

I've recorded the performance on hard disk and will also slot-in last night's refreshing Ravel concert on BBC 4 by the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester which included a first for me when the conductor, Philippe Jordan joined soloist Jean-Yves Thibaudet at the piano, offering a delicious two pair of hands as an encore, with the Fairy Garden from Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. Magical.

[Alain Maréchal]

hilarious madcap score for Tom & Jerry cartoons, .

in what way hilarious? Where is the humour found without the film? (come to think of it, where is the humour in those cartoons?)

Was your response to A Place in the Sun based on your knowledge of the film (which I have not seen) or the music alone?

[Stanley Stewart]

The scoring of the Tom & Jerry cartoons contagiously affected the musicians and the audience who may have shared long memories of theatrical and TV screenings. Even as a viewer, I could sense their empathy and delight throughout. I do not possess the sophistry to analyse or explain the elements of humour.

Yes, I've recently watched "A Place in the Sun" on DVD and have a separate recording of Waxman's evocative score.

[Nick Armstrong]

iwhere is the humour in those cartoons?

Oh dear.

last night's refreshing Ravel concert on BBC 4 by the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester which included a first for me when the conductor, Philippe Jordan joined soloist Jean-Yves Thibaudet at the piano, offering a delicious two pair of hands as an encore, with the Fairy Garden from Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. Magical.

The Ravel 'section' of the concert provided one of the best half-hours I've ever spent in a concert hall

[Alain Maréchal]

and the audience who may have shared long memories of theatrical and TV screenings.

I think that supports one of my points - it was only humorous if you were recalling the moments that you had originally found amusing in the cartoons, there is no hilarity in the music iself. I thought it tedious (as I had the cartoons - they were presumably intended for children).

[VodkaDilc]

I've recorded the performance on hard disk and will also slot-in last night's refreshing Ravel concert on BBC 4 by the Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester which included a first for me when the conductor, Philippe Jordan joined soloist Jean-Yves Thibaudet at the piano, offering a delicious two pair of hands as an encore, with the Fairy Garden from Ravel's Mother Goose Suite. Magical.

As Caliban has written, the Ravel Concerto and the Ravel encore were stunning in the RAH. Perhaps Stanley, with his long experience of such things, could throw some light on the reason for the BBC editing out the couple of seconds, just before the encore, when Thibaudet announced what they were to play. Just a trace of it remained in the broadcast. Were they ashamed that the microphones did not pick up the unamplified words? Or perhaps extra fees were involved if the pianist spoke in public - a light-hearted suggestion, but who knows?

Watching the complete concert again, I was impressed by the overall quality of the rest of the programme too. Many of us were slightly wet after the downpours of Saturday - perhaps we were a little jaded, resulting in an over-critical reaction to the Shostakovich.

[marvin]

As Caliban has written, the Ravel Concerto and the Ravel encore were stunning in the RAH. Perhaps Stanley, with his long experience of such things, could throw some light on the reason for the BBC editing out the couple of seconds, just before the encore, when Thibaudet announced what they were to play. Just a trace of it remained in the broadcast. Were they ashamed that the microphones did not pick up the unamplified words? Or perhaps extra fees were involved if the pianist spoke in public - a light-hearted suggestion, but who knows?

Watching the complete concert again, I was impressed by the overall quality of the rest of the programme too. Many of us were slightly wet after the downpours of Saturday - perhaps we were a little jaded, resulting in an over-critical reaction to the Shostakovich.

Eh! What's this got to do with the Hollywood Rhapsody Prom or am I missing something?

[marvin]

I'm skipping quickly through this one which I had recorded. A largely pointless one, if you ask me. One or two nice tunes and a luscious Korngold score and Psycho always brings back memories of that film (seen many times). Otherwise, most of film music doesn't stand up on its own. A wasted opportunity of the BEEB when anothe prom concert could have been recorded instead.

[VodkaDilc]

Eh! What's this got to do with the Hollywood Rhapsody Prom or am I missing something?

Message 17- paragraph 2

[Stanley Stewart]

Thanks VD and Marvin. The link for me with the Ravel and Hollywood Rhapsody was a sense of shared exhilaration on successive evenings which makes them ideal partners on a DVD. A welcome diversion at a time of potential widening tragedy in the Middle East.

VD. I'm going to steer clear of the sheer clumsy vandalism in TV editing during the current Proms season except to add Orson Welles's comment and ire when he saw what the RKO editors had done to his direction of "The Magnificent Ambersons 1942) - more than 30 mins were pruned. He likened this atrocity to the work of the studio janitor - who may still be working for the Beeb. The mind really boggles but I prefer to celebrate a week which has given us "Billy Budd" - if I'd had only one wish it would have been for a TV relay of this production - and the truly refreshing experience of the Ravel/DSCH, followed by the lush expertise of the John Wilson concert.

Finally, I certainly can't define humour but I do have an inbuilt antennae which instantly recognises humourlessness!

[Alain Maréchal]

a sense of shared exhilaration on successive evenings which makes them ideal partners on a DVD. A welcome diversion at a time of potential widening tragedy in the Middle East.

So, your reactions are based on extra-musical influences, rather than the performances? Could that be the same as your reactions to the cartoon music?

Opinions in this thread have prompted me to listen again to the film music prom. My initial thoughts after seeing the TV broadcast remain unchanged.

Addendum; an entirely neutral request. I am unfamilar with John Wilson's accent. Where is he from?

[BBMmk2]

Having just watched the televised prom, I have to enter a dissentient post: I can't understand the point of listening to the music separately from the film. It only points up just how thin and repetitive much of the music is (eg Ben-Hur) , disguised by lush orchestration, and aimed at an audience who weren't paying attention to it. The only pieces that worked on their own were Salammbo's aria, which is a pastiche, and Laura. Was there any point at all in playing that Tom and Jerry score? The section with the two 'vocalists' seemed to belong in a different concert.

I will say one thing for John Wilson - his dress sense puts some recent conductors to shame. All he needed was a carnation.

Where are people's imagination? It's similar to concert performances to opera, in a way. I prefer the audio aspect of it than the actual footage of the film The reason being is that I like to imagine in my mind what is going on in the film in question, thus relating the music in that. Is that so hard for people to do?

[Nick Armstrong]

I do have an inbuilt antennae which instantly recognises humourlessness!

Worthy of Malvolio !!

[Nick Armstrong]

I am unfamilar with John Wilson's accent. Where is he from?

Broad Geordie - easily found, AM: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Wilson_(conductor) - see para 2