Prom 57 - 25.08.13: Wagner – Parsifal

[DracoM]

Agreed. What a terrific site. Ws at Bayreuth for the Jerusalem / Stein performance.
The Solti/Kollo still rates for me as one of the very best and most feeling on record. Kollo's Act 3 alone worth the trip, and Solti/VPO are in inward, intense, and searching mood.

[Petrushka]

Agreed. What a terrific site. Ws at Bayreuth for the Jerusalem / Stein performance.
The Solti/Kollo still rates for me as one of the very best and most feeling on record. Kollo's Act 3 alone worth the trip, and Solti/VPO are in inward, intense, and searching mood.

Yes, the Solti for me as well but the comments on the Barenboim set are leading me to think an investigation would be worthwhile...

[slarty]

Yes, the Solti for me as well but the comments on the Barenboim set are leading me to think an investigation would be worthwhile...

Barenboim had then shortly before conducted Parsifal at Bayreuth with Meier and Jerusalem. They always had a special rapport, as seen recently in the Ring at the Proms (she will sing any role for him) and this is a very good studio recording. In fact it is among the very best, and at the moment it is selling for 15 pounds or 16 euros on Amazon UK(or .de)
I would recommend this, but then you that I think very highly of DB's Wagner.

[PhilipT]

This can't go unchallenged! I can very well understand your annoyance (I've been there myself on occasion) but you can't seriously expect Elder, or any other conductor, to alter their interpretation in order to ensure punters can catch the last train home!

I don't (and I don't like being mis-represented). I expect performers who are being paid to start on time, finish roughly on time (I had no problem with Runnicles' five minutes over-run with Tannhäuser, which was also on a Sunday), and to tell the sponsors in advance how long the performance is going to take.

I know for a fact that, on the day, the bars and restaurants were informed of revised timings. I don't think that's good enough.

[slarty]

I don't (and I don't like being mis-represented). I expect performers who are being paid to start on time, finish roughly on time (I had no problem with Runnicles' five minutes over-run with Tannhäuser, which was also on a Sunday), and to tell the sponsors in advance how long the performance is going to take.

I know for a fact that, on the day, the bars and restaurants were informed of revised timings. I don't think that's good enough.

Absolutely right - but that is the fault of the BBC ,they organise the Proms, not the conductor.

[Resurrection Man]

Barenboim had then shortly before conducted Parsifal at Bayreuth with Meier and Jerusalem. They always had a special rapport, as seen recently in the Ring at the Proms (she will sing any role for him) and this is a very good studio recording. In fact it is among the very best, and at the moment it is selling for 15 pounds or 16 euros on Amazon UK(or .de)
I would recommend this, but then you that I think very highly of DB's Wagner.

Do you have a link to the Amazon one as all I can see is one for £83.99 !

[slarty]

Do you have a link to the Amazon one as all I can see is one for £83.99 !

Here it is

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parsifal-Daniel-Barenboim/dp/B004W7GPXI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1377787191&sr=1-1&keywords=parsifal+barenboim

or

http://www.amazon.de/Parsifal-Daniel-Barenboim/dp/B004W7GPXI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1377787281&sr=8-1&keywords=parsifal+barenboim

[ostuni]

This Teldec rerelease of the Barenboim is an absolute bargain, with excellent recorded sound (the best bells in the Grail scene, of any I've heard), and some superb singing. Though I have to say I find Hölle's rather unfocussed, woolly Gurnemanz a big let-down.

BTW, nobody, as far as I've seen, has commented on Elder's bells the other night. From where I was sitting (stalls, 1st vln side) they were way too loudly balanced, and horribly synthetic. A pity, because all the other off-stage stuff - the brass, the youths & boys, Titurel - sounded wonderful: perfectly judged use of the space.

[Resurrection Man]

Here it is

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parsifal-Daniel-Barenboim/dp/B004W7GPXI/ref=sr_1_1?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1377787191&sr=1-1&keywords=parsifal+barenboim

or
http://www.amazon.de/Parsifal-Daniel...ifal+barenboim

Many thanks

[Petrushka]

I don't (and I don't like being mis-represented). I expect performers who are being paid to start on time, finish roughly on time (I had no problem with Runnicles' five minutes over-run with Tannhäuser, which was also on a Sunday), and to tell the sponsors in advance how long the performance is going to take.

I know for a fact that, on the day, the bars and restaurants were informed of revised timings. I don't think that's good enough.

Apologies if you thought I misrepresented you but a re-reading of your post clearly lays the blame for late running of the performance solely at the door of Sir Mark Elder. This comment:

Mark Elder needs reminding that a professional is someone who takes account of the needs of the people who pay his salary.

doesn't seem open to misrepresentation to me. Anyway

[PhilipT]

My point is that he should have told the BBC how long it would take in time for them to plan the concert properly, before the Guide was printed, and then stuck to it. As I think has been said already, if it had started 30 minutes earlier there'd have been no problem.

I had a similar annoying experience, much less serious, at the Rattle Parsifal Prom several years ago. In those days, Prommers' doors opened one hour before the concert, and I had booked dinner in a restaurant for that time. Rattle decided at the last minute that more rehearsal was needed, and delayed door opening for half-an-hour. I could have gone in and had my meal on time, but only at the expense of losing my place in the queue (I was certain of a place in the front row). When I turned up 30 minutes late the Elgar Room staff were horrified, and then did a fine job of getting me a two course meal in 25 minutes flat.

[Resurrection Man]

My point is that he should have told the BBC how long it would take in time for them to plan the concert properly, before the Guide was printed, and then stuck to it. As I think has been said already, if it had started 30 minutes earlier there'd have been no problem.

How do you know he didn't?

I had a similar annoying experience, much less serious, at the Rattle Parsifal Prom several years ago. In those days, Prommers' doors opened one hour before the concert, and I had booked dinner in a restaurant for that time. Rattle decided at the last minute that more rehearsal was needed, and delayed door opening for half-an-hour. I could have gone in and had my meal on time, but only at the expense of losing my place in the queue (I was certain of a place in the front row). When I turned up 30 minutes late the Elgar Room staff were horrified, and then did a fine job of getting me a two course meal in 25 minutes flat.

Oh I do so hate it when one's dinner is late.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

My point is that he should have told the BBC how long it would take in time for them to plan the concert properly, before the Guide was printed, and then stuck to it. As I think has been said already, if it had started 30 minutes earlier there'd have been no problem.

Are you serious, Philip? A conductor is invited by the BBC to perform Parsifal at the Proms, and he is expected to make sure that the BBC gets the running time correct? You blame Elder for the BBC not having anybody on its staff who didn't notice that "90mins" for Act One would make it the shortest performance of the Music ever? Nobody at the BBC who wouldn't know that a two-hour slot should be the safer timing is Elder's fault? The BBC's not starting the Prom 30mins earlier is all down to Elder?

I'm not especially fond of the man or his Music-making, but expecting any Musician to tell the BBC how long a mainstream repertory work lasts is a crticism too far.

[PhilipT]

I'm still getting the idea that I'm being mis-represented. As I see it, there are two possibilities: The BBC plan the concert, choose the running times, and then expect the performers to conform; or, they book the performers, and ask them (or possibly the composer, in the case of a new work) how long each will piece will last. Does anyone here think the first option makes sense? I don't. Someone has to take account of the conductor's (or soloist's, in the case of a concerto) freedom to choose the tempi, whether or not (in the case of some symphonies) to observe repeats, and, in the case of a concerto, the soloist's freedom of choice over any cadenzas.

As I see it, in the case of Parsifal, it's for the conductor to decide on tempi and to inform the concert promoter of running times, and for the promoter to do the arithmetic. I do not see that that is asking too much of a professional conductor about a performance that is going to be broadcast live, leaving aside any issues about finishing times and the audience getting home.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But, Philip - Parsifal isn't some unknown piece; it's a focal point of the Western Classical Tradition, and one, moreover, that has been programmed at the Proms before. The first Act has never in its entire history been got through in 90mins (including introductions, applause etc) even with cuts. Unless Elder told everyone that his performance would take "90mins max", there's no way that he can be blamed for the advertised timing. The blunder is the fault of the twelve-year-old at the Beeb who first gave that running time, and all his mates at R3 who didn't point out that that was a suspiciously swift estimation.