Prom 56 = 24.08.13: Gustav Mahler Jugendorchester

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • VodkaDilc

    #31
    I have just listened to the R3 relay of the first half of the Prom. Comparing it with the real thing, I have some observations:

    Balance: To my mind the piano was far too dominant in the Ravel. It was matched perfectly in the RAH. The orchestral numbers were much reduced and they treated it as chamber music. Not so in the radio version, where the engineers appear to have thought it was Tchaikovsky: the many places where the piano blends into the background were presented with a huge piano sound - and with no subtlety at all. Similarly, a passage for two pianissimo harps came over as a double harp concerto.

    Announcer: A sports commentator on the radio or the likes of Cormac Rigby and Tony Scotland in the heyday of R3 describes what the listener cannot see. Miss Bland last night (I don't know which interchangeable BBC voice it was) had her script to deliver and would do it at all costs. During the applause after the Wagner, she could have explained the sudden bursts (such as when the First Trumpet was acknowledged); instead she lectured us about what could be found online. Even when soloists were mentioned after the Ravel, she listed them in one breath, with no attempt to link the size of the ovation to the instrument. That is surely her job! Even the duet encore was mishandled: she announced that we were in for a surprise, but not until afterwards were we told what it was. All of this could have been described as it happened.

    Coughers: They were less in evidence on radio than they were in the hall. At times (Slow movement of the Ravel, as if we couldn't guess) the coughers were determined to hog the limelight, as if it was mid-November. Perhaps the BBC has audience obliteration software.

    The bloke next to BBC's Miss Bland: I had wondered who this was, especially when he took photos at the end, but it turned out to be one of the orchestra's admin people, who was interviewed while the stage was reset for the Ravel.

    Speaking properly: Have the young completely given up talking proper English? One British orchestral player was interviewed. When I was young, if I had been interviewed on the BBC, I would have taken care to speak clearly and correctly. This young man, who sounded delightful, constantly used the "I was like" construction - as in "When I joined the orchestra, I was like: these players are all better than me." What happened to "I thought............"? I'm all in favour of informality, but......!

    Rant over. Does anyone agree with any of this?

    Comment

    • Petrushka
      Full Member
      • Nov 2010
      • 12346

      #32
      Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
      Does anyone agree with any of this?
      Some of it yes. The Ravel isn't chamber music so why were numbers reduced? The piano/orchestra balance was skewed if numbers were reduced but I wasn't aware of this from the relay.

      I get pretty annoyed with the announcers telling us the most interesting facets of a piece once it's over! So irritating to music newbies to whom the Proms are supposedly aimed. In any case, Sarah More-Peach is my least favourite R3 announcer by some distance. Martin Handley or Christopher Cooke would have done a better job.

      Coughers destroyed the Panufnik Lullaby the previous night. What is it with these people?

      Young people can't speak proper like what we does. No wonder the DSCH 5 was such a bland performance. It is so far out of their world as to be meaningless.
      "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

      Comment

      • VodkaDilc

        #33
        Originally posted by Petrushka View Post

        I get pretty annoyed with the announcers telling us the most interesting facets of a piece once it's over! So irritating to music newbies to whom the Proms are supposedly aimed. In any case, Sarah More-Peach is my least favourite R3 announcer by some distance. Martin Handley or Christopher Cooke would have done a better job.

        .
        I did not know that was her name. I thought it couldn't be Katie Derham, since I think she's the one who falls over her tongue to make a meal of every foreign name. Last night's lady couldn't even manage Jugendorchester.

        So who was presenting the television version? Petroc T was back on Sky News last night, so it couldn't be him - unless he has a very fast driver at his disposal.

        Comment

        • Ferretfancy
          Full Member
          • Nov 2010
          • 3487

          #34
          Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
          I have just listened to the R3 relay of the first half of the Prom. Comparing it with the real thing, I have some observations:

          Balance: To my mind the piano was far too dominant in the Ravel. It was matched perfectly in the RAH. The orchestral numbers were much reduced and they treated it as chamber music. Not so in the radio version, where the engineers appear to have thought it was Tchaikovsky: the many places where the piano blends into the background were presented with a huge piano sound - and with no subtlety at all. Similarly, a passage for two pianissimo harps came over as a double harp concerto.

          Announcer: A sports commentator on the radio or the likes of Cormac Rigby and Tony Scotland in the heyday of R3 describes what the listener cannot see. Miss Bland last night (I don't know which interchangeable BBC voice it was) had her script to deliver and would do it at all costs. During the applause after the Wagner, she could have explained the sudden bursts (such as when the First Trumpet was acknowledged); instead she lectured us about what could be found online. Even when soloists were mentioned after the Ravel, she listed them in one breath, with no attempt to link the size of the ovation to the instrument. That is surely her job! Even the duet encore was mishandled: she announced that we were in for a surprise, but not until afterwards were we told what it was. All of this could have been described as it happened.

          Coughers: They were less in evidence on radio than they were in the hall. At times (Slow movement of the Ravel, as if we couldn't guess) the coughers were determined to hog the limelight, as if it was mid-November. Perhaps the BBC has audience obliteration software.

          The bloke next to BBC's Miss Bland: I had wondered who this was, especially when he took photos at the end, but it turned out to be one of the orchestra's admin people, who was interviewed while the stage was reset for the Ravel.

          Speaking properly: Have the young completely given up talking proper English? One British orchestral player was interviewed. When I was young, if I had been interviewed on the BBC, I would have taken care to speak clearly and correctly. This young man, who sounded delightful, constantly used the "I was like" construction - as in "When I joined the orchestra, I was like: these players are all better than me." What happened to "I thought............"? I'm all in favour of informality, but......!

          Rant over. Does anyone agree with any of this?
          Balance : Phillipe Jordan got some very beautiful quiet playing in both the symphony and the concerto, some string passages hovered on inaudibility even from the vantage point of the Arena. This would present a dynamic challenge on the radio, and probably the engineers got caught out by those harps. Sadly, they are no longer BBC engineers, the Proms have been farmed out like so much else.

          Coughers : I have been less troubled by them this year in the hall, with a few nasty exceptions. Close microphones, usually cardiods , can help to hide coughs on air, but at the expense of a natural sound.

          Happy Clappers : The worst disaster so far was the ripple of applause at the end of the first movement in Shostakovich 6 the other evening. It started as usual in the upper seats, spread a little and then petered out. Sometimes I wish that murder was easier than it is !

          Thibaudet is the only pianist I have heard for some time in the Ravel who managed to make those magical trills in the first movement sound like glissandi. Michelangeli was superb here in his classic recording with Ettore Gracis.
          Last edited by Ferretfancy; 25-08-13, 16:03. Reason: Spelling errors

          Comment

          • VodkaDilc

            #35
            Originally posted by Ferretfancy View Post
            Coughers : I have been less troubled by them this year in the hall, with a few nasty exceptions. Close microphones, usually cardiods , can help to hide coughs on air, but at the expense of a natural sound.

            Happy Clappers : The worst disaster so far was the ripple of applause at the end of the first movement in Shostakovich 6 the other evening. It started as usual in the upper seats, spread a little and then petered out. Sometimes I wish that murder was easier than it is !
            .
            There has been virtually no clapping between movements in the Proms I have been to this year. Perhaps I've just been lucky. What concerns me more is the increase in people with no sense of concert etiquette, in particular, "you do not talk during the music". A lady and her daughter in front of me last night constantly whispered to each other - they should know that nothing is so important that it can't wait until the end of the movement. I wonder if young people do not have to sit quietly, so never get into the habit. We used to sit quietly in lessons, in assembly, in church and so on, so got into the discipline.

            On a subject where I feel less decided, there were several young children near me last night. They were mostly very still and well-behaved, but occasionally a bit restless. My conclusion was that it was wonderful for them to be there and that it was worth occasional slight fidgetyness to get them into the concert habit. Very lucky children to have parents willing to introduce them to such pleasures at such as early stage of life!

            Comment

            • Nick Armstrong
              Host
              • Nov 2010
              • 26577

              #36
              Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
              So who was presenting the television version? Petroc T was back on Sky News last night, so it couldn't be him - unless he has a very fast driver at his disposal.
              VodkaD, your posts and others above have been very interesting to read today; having been at this Prom, I'll add some comments later. I see the R3 repeat is next Sunday afternoon so I'll make a note to listen with interest, in view of what you say!

              Ms Derham will shepherd viewers through the TV version on Thursday night, if this is to be believed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0395lms It'll be interesting to hear how the sound balance is for that broadcast, too.

              More anon when time permits.
              "...the isle is full of noises,
              Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
              Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
              Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

              Comment

              • VodkaDilc

                #37
                Originally posted by Caliban View Post

                Ms Derham will shepherd viewers through the TV version on Thursday night, if this is to be believed: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0395lms It'll be interesting to hear how the sound balance is for that broadcast, too.

                I looked around to see if an announcer was perched precariously on a balcony somewhere, but to no avail. I am sure that she will give us all the enlightenment we need. There are some wonderful names in the orchestra for her to get her teeth into.

                I await your more general comments with interest.

                Comment

                • VodkaDilc

                  #38
                  As ever, I find myself reading a concert programme in far more depth the day after a concert. In the second programme we were given (sic) last night, I notice this piece of vital information:

                  Known for his style and elegance, Jean-Yves Thibaudet wears a concert wardrobe designed by Vivienne Westwood.

                  Is it unusual for this sort of announcement to be made or am I just unobservant? I would be most surprised to read that the concert gear of, say, Alfred Brendel or Radu Lupu, was specially designed by a fashion guru.

                  Comment

                  • Petrushka
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 12346

                    #39
                    Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
                    As ever, I find myself reading a concert programme in far more depth the day after a concert. In the second programme we were given (sic) last night, I notice this piece of vital information:

                    Known for his style and elegance, Jean-Yves Thibaudet wears a concert wardrobe designed by Vivienne Westwood.

                    Is it unusual for this sort of announcement to be made or am I just unobservant? I would be most surprised to read that the concert gear of, say, Alfred Brendel or Radu Lupu, was specially designed by a fashion guru.
                    I seem to recall that Ermenegildo Zegna was credited in a programme with providing the suit worn by Valery Gergiev. I do hope we have no more of this narcissist nonsense.
                    "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                    Comment

                    • jayne lee wilson
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 10711

                      #40
                      Come on guys, ease up a little! When I see Tine TH or Alison Balsom in some gorgeous creation I often want to know who made it. Why shouldn't the men share in that pleasure too if they want? All that matters is that they play a great concert.

                      I mean, Katie D does at least dress nicely...(the absent HS is among her visual admirers, but I guess he wasn't looking at the clothes)

                      Comment

                      • ferneyhoughgeliebte
                        Gone fishin'
                        • Sep 2011
                        • 30163

                        #41
                        Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                        When I see Tine TH or Alison Balsom in some gorgeous creation I often want to know who made it. Why shouldn't the men share in that pleasure too if they want?
                        If the opportunity to wear one of Alison Balsom's gorgeous creations brings Alfred Brendel back to the Concert Hall, don't let me stop him.
                        [FONT=Comic Sans MS][I][B]Numquam Satis![/B][/I][/FONT]

                        Comment

                        • Petrushka
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 12346

                          #42
                          Originally posted by ferneyhoughgeliebte View Post
                          If the opportunity to wear one of Alison Balsom's gorgeous creations brings Alfred Brendel back to the Concert Hall, don't let me stop him.
                          "The sound is the handwriting of the conductor" - Bernard Haitink

                          Comment

                          • Nick Armstrong
                            Host
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 26577

                            #43
                            Wresting the mind away from that ineffable image, to last night's concert....

                            Well the Ravel performances were the unforgettable highlights, for me. The piano concerto is one of those pieces that's been close to my heart for nearly 40 years, and the performance was an utter delight. It was just about as good as it gets, I think - stunning piano playing, admirable balance with the orchestra, instrumental solos perfect from start to finish. Just magic. And the duet encore, another of my 'desert island' pieces, was an enthralling bonus.

                            The Shostakovich was a clear, strong reading of the piece... I know what the comments above are getting at, I agree that for me this piece needs to be more dangerous, more neurotic or at least emphatic. But it sounded magnificent in the hall - and my 15 year old companion, who was new to DSCH5, turned to me after each movement with a delighted grin all over his face: it was great as an introduction to the piece.

                            We enjoyed the Wagner too, they did the swaggering, rousing stuff very well: a good opener. The principal trumpet, who didn't put a note wrong all night started it with a beauty and confidence that marked out the whole concert.

                            But the Ravel was in a different league. Perfection.
                            "...the isle is full of noises,
                            Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                            Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                            Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                            Comment

                            • VodkaDilc

                              #44
                              Originally posted by Caliban View Post
                              The principal trumpet, who didn't put a note wrong all night started it with a beauty and confidence that marked out the whole concert.
                              .
                              I agree with you, though, as the programme suggested and the interview on the radio just before the Ravel confirmed, the orchestra does not have principals, apart from the leader. They all audition regularly and take turns playing the principal parts - though that particular trumpeter seemed to have the lion's share.

                              Comment

                              • Nick Armstrong
                                Host
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 26577

                                #45
                                Originally posted by VodkaDilc View Post
                                I agree with you, though, as the programme suggested and the interview on the radio just before the Ravel confirmed, the orchestra does not have principals, apart from the leader. They all audition regularly and take turns playing the principal parts - though that particular trumpeter seemed to have the lion's share.
                                Good point, thanks. I didn't get to read the programme.

                                I thought the bassoonist who took most of the solos was an absolute star too - he really NAILED that solo in the Ravel, swaying and giving it a real sax-style swing!
                                "...the isle is full of noises,
                                Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                                Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                                Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X