Prom 49 - 19.08.13: Berlioz, Mendelssohn, Bach & Beethoven

[Daniel]

Others have said it better but I think that was the most exciting Eroica I've ever heard, it sounded like it had leapt straight out of Beethoven's pen. And it seems miraculous to be able to hear everything like that. I got such a strong impression of hearing it for the first time. I'd absolutely love to hear them do the other Beethoven symphonies if they were going to be anything like that revelatory.

And to think I nearly missed this performance .... but I emerged from this performance totally galvinized by the experience. So many thanks to HS and everyone here for drawing my attention to the concert.

Seconded!

[edashtav]

As the very first Tempo "modification" was the presentation of the opening two chords, I don't think it had anything to do with being "unable" to keep "up" with the pace of the main body of the Movement. And it was always a "tweaking" of a couple of beats as a "signposting" of points of structural significance [leading into the Second Group, for example] - as if wishing to suggest a connection between these points and those opening chords.


Which one? ("Metronome" not "Miss Temple") - Beethoven was supplied with three or four metronomes by the instrument's inventor (Lorin Maazel ). The myth of "the faulty metronome" rather loses force when those who comment on it seem to think that 1) he only possessed one, and that this one was 2) faulty in both directions (too fast and not fast enough) whilst being accurate at other times; and 3) they can't decide amongst themselves which Movements are faultily indicated - the same Metronome Mark can be "far too fast/slow" for one commentator, whilst being "reliable" for another.

But a Metronome Mark of "= 60" is pretty clear - it's the pulse meted out by any mechanical clock as it ticks and tocks.

Above all, it's the effects that observing the metronome markings has on performance that makes me trust them - Allegro con brio stops being Allegro maestoso or Allegretto moderato. The connections Beethoven's Music has with Haydn's are made clear as well as the completely different attitudes that the younger composer brought to the medium. The Eroica is a young man's Music - something which Ticciati's performance really brought out - fiery, with a joyful arrogance that relishes its own audacity. Each moment "told", but the "big picture" was never lost - words like "trajectory" come in very useful at times like these, with such a ballistic realization of the score.

And to think I nearly missed this performance: stuff's happening that made me think that I didn't really have the psychic energy to cope with the Eroica - but I emerged from this performance totally galvinized by the experience. So many thanks to HS and everyone here for drawing my attention to the concert.

And how it strikes me now that this Prom was the real memorial to Sir Colin Davis: one of his students taking his wisdom but in no way subsuming his own ideas about the score with a sub-Davis attempt to present the work as if he were conducting it. One repays a teacher very poorly if one remains a student.

I respect your views, fhg, which are well-argued and cogently expressed.
I'm not arguing against fast tempi, but against speeds which vitiate the force of the music. I feel this happened during the Eroica but I acknowledge that I am in a minority. I need fast & forceful in the first movement of the Eroica - notes sustained by bow pressure for their full length.

I do worry about your scientific education, ferney. It was Luigi GalvAni who first demonstrated electrical impulses not his distant French cousin, GalvIni. If you need some lessons - do ask!

[Nick Armstrong]

Others have said it better but I think that was the most exciting Eroica I've ever heard, it sounded like it had leapt straight out of Beethoven's pen. And it seems miraculous to be able to hear everything like that. I got such a strong impression of hearing it for the first time. I'd absolutely love to hear them do the other Beethoven symphonies if they were going to be anything like that revelatory.

And to think I nearly missed this performance: stuff's happening that made me think that I didn't really have the psychic energy to cope with the Eroica - but I emerged from this performance totally galvinized by the experience. So many thanks to HS and everyone here for drawing my attention to the concert.

Seconded!

Oh blimey! I really am going to have to hear this now aren't I... or at least the second half. (Heard a bit of the Hough Mendelssohn - SH seems to be having a bit of an 'off' (spelt 'Hough") season... not tempted to hear that again)

[jayne lee wilson]

Whether one is listening on FM or watching meters and counting bitrates is immaterial. If an orchestra is playing out of tune, even grannie's trannie in the kitchen will reveal the fact.



* out of tune in the lower strings


So it was a mistake to expect a paying audience to endure those shortcomings?



Amen to that.

HS

WEll, HS - you and edashtav appear to have had your enjoyment spoiled by your perception of poor intonation. I, fhg and others didn't. And that's it. You can't expect those of us who didn't pick it up to feel our responses are invalidated on the basis of other, doubtless more perceptive, ears.

No need to count bitrates on HDs! The codec implementation is well known now. But you can't get away with calling FM "immaterial" to one's perception of the music. Pitch problems should indeed be audible, but dynamics are an essential part of the "meaning" and structure, (never mind the perception and experience) of the music (most especially in Beethoven and Berlioz) and given that FM struggles to achieve (or be allowed to achieve) 30db these days (unless there's been a technical coup d'etat at the BBC recently) it can only be described as a misrepresentation.

I'm not sure what your point is about the "paying audience"... I listen here at home on a very revealing, neutrally balanced system, and simply report what I hear as honestly as I can.

[amateur51]

Just listened to the Eroica - tremendous stuff and the paying audience clearly loved it too judging by the roars for the horns and the applause for the entire enterprise.

[BBMmk2]

I really enjoyed the "Eroica", but wasn't too keen on that JSB arrangement.