Prom 38 - 11.08.13: Free Prom – Beethoven's Ninth Symphony

[Ravensbourne]

Late replacements

Have amended the OP as Toby Spence replaced Andrew Kennedy as the tenor.

Ailish Tynan replaced Lisa Milne as soprano.

[french frank]

Ailish Tynan replaced Lisa Milne as soprano.

Thank you - changed in OP.

[Barbirollians]

I have no doubt they enjoyed it and they played their hearts out but this is not a concerto for orchestra and sometimes it sounded like that . Interpretatively, it was all over the place - a hectoring opening movement completely lacking in mystery like early Norrington on speed, a bright sparkling scherzo, a rather traditional but curiously unmoving Adagio and a vigorous finale but with choral singing that lacked heft . Soloists were fine but this was a real curate's egg of a performance and u just got the feeling that musically though not at all technically this was a bridge too far for the NYO .

Frieze was harmless stuff I rather enjoyed the Stravinskian finale . The VW was too dirgy and seemed out of place .

[mercia]

I thought the chorus was rather good, we're always told what a difficult sing Beethoven 9 is, but I didn't think they sounded at all strained

[johnb]

I thought the chorus was rather good, we're always told what a difficult sing Beethoven 9 is, but I didn't think they sounded at all strained

Some time ago a friend who sung in an amateur choir told me that he thought Beethoven was bl**dy difficult to sing, almost as though Beethoven was writing against the voice rather than for it. (He had been rehearsing the Missa Solemnis.)

I'd be interested to hear what others who have choral experience think.

[Simon B]

Can't sing to save my life, but I know a chorister who can. "Freude Schöner Götterfunken" from B9 is a.k.a. "Gotter funken hernia", which seems to say it all...

[Simon Biazeck]

Some time ago a friend who sung in an amateur choir told me that he thought Beethoven was bl**dy difficult to sing, almost as though Beethoven was writing against the voice rather than for it. (He had been rehearsing the Missa Solemnis.)

I'd be interested to hear what others who have choral experience think.

I did it some years ago (over 10 - someone remind me!) in the Proms with JEG and the Monteverdi Choir from memory and I must say it was a very enjoyable experience - quite exhilarating and memorable! I don't remember finding it difficult in performance, but the rehearsals were quite another matter, especially because we were singing it from memory. Sir John's way in rehearsal is very detailed and demanding of vocal stamina. It was hard graft getting it off the page for someone who had never sung before, but for most of the old guard crowd it was probably a cinch!

[Mary Chambers]

Listening to Beethoven 9 now on R3. I've sung it quite often, though not for long time. I find I still know all my cues, and when to stand up! I always enjoyed the words, if not the actual vocal writing. Never done the Missa Solemnis, but I don't think I'd have enjoyed it much.

[Historian]

Some time ago a friend who sung in an amateur choir told me that he thought Beethoven was bl**dy difficult to sing, almost as though Beethoven was writing against the voice rather than for it. (He had been rehearsing the Missa Solemnis.)

I'd be interested to hear what others who have choral experience think.

It does feel like that sometimes, being pushed to extremes, at least for an amateur singer. The sopranos have it the worst in the Choral Symphony, with one very difficult entry, extremely high and quiet. The bass part is rather high in places for non-baritones, leading to cracked notes. However, it is only about ten minutes singing and having sung it over thirty times it doesn't worry me any more. The Missa is much more demanding, especially when, having finished one glorious fugue, Beethoven then goes straight into another one in the Gloria. However, it's well worth the effort and I find myself going around humming it for weeks afterwards.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

All of which gives even greater argument for performing it at the lower tunings that Beethoven would have expected?




(Mind you, knowing how quickly HIPP research goes, somebody has probably discovered that in Vienna in the early Nineteenth Century, they tuned to A = 460!)

Best choral singing I've ever heard in the work was from the youth choirs at last year's Proms: they really sang joyfully; a real skip in their step.


Shame about the Tarzanesque soloists.

[EnemyoftheStoat]

Some time ago a friend who sung in an amateur choir told me that he thought Beethoven was bl**dy difficult to sing, almost as though Beethoven was writing against the voice rather than for it. (He had been rehearsing the Missa Solemnis.)

I'd be interested to hear what others who have choral experience think.

As a second bass, I've almost come to think that we should be given the night off whenever LvB9 is on the menu. Most of it is not actually that demanding, but of course the passage from "Seid umschlungen, Millionen" is notorious for altitude, as is the fugue. But then these are what first basses are for ; there's nothing lower than an A in the bass part. Mind you, the altos don't get much to sing other than an A.

It does help if the conductor doesn't have an idiosyncratic view of the piece; one fairly recent one (who will remain anonymous out of professional courtesy) required a scaled-down staccato version of the choral part that pretty well eliminated any sense of line and did nothing to make it more singable. The critics weren't convinced, and if the result sounded anything like his (much-lauded) recording I'm not surprised.

[marvin]

Have just endured this performance on the radio. I don' like the ninth apart from the slow movement and that was ruined in this performance.
I always treat this, generally, as a three movement symphony (the first three) as the 'Ode to joy' to me is anything but that.
Overall, what I heard was pretty dire with the two first movement being rushed to no effect. I don't think that I'll elaborate further.

[Mary Chambers]

. Mind you, the altos don't get much to sing other than an A.

.

Rather true. I'm an alto, and I didn't find it difficult, but I've never felt Beethoven was a natural vocal composer. It feels a bit clumsy.

[edashtav]

Rather true. I'm an alto, and I didn't find it difficult, but I've never felt Beethoven was a natural vocal composer. It feels a bit clumsy.

[my emphasis]

I'm afraid that you're right, Mary.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Rather true. I'm an alto, and I didn't find it difficult, but I've never felt Beethoven was a natural vocal composer. It feels a bit clumsy.

What was the old joke?

Q. What do you call a soprano who can read music?
A. An alto.