Prom 37 - 10.08.13: Urban Classic Prom

[teamsaint]

to pick up on your point, amcluesent, "relevance" is a rather over rated virtue IMO. I have to admit I didn't always think that, but I guess we change as we travel through life.

I suppose the lyrics to many Brahms songs aren't "relevant", in the sense used in regard to the Urban Prom, but they seem relevant to me, even in their often spectacularly romantic and 19th century way.

Strauss" Four last Songs".
"Relevant"?

[pilamenon]

Every year we lose another proper prom to garbage. The Dr Who prom, Hollywood film music, Proms in the Park, British light music prom, now 'urban' prom.

This Prom wasn't for me, either, but I don't object to its inclusion and it is not garbage, any more than film or light music are "garbage".

What I do object to is its scheduling at prime time on Saturday evening, one of the few opportunities for working people living a fair way outside London to get to enjoy a more "traditional" Prom and a summer's day/evening out in London. Why couldn't it have been given a late evening slot, like the 6Music Prom?

[DracoM]

If this had been billed as something other than the extremely misleading 'urban prom', then OK, I'd have known that of all the musics I love across the spectrum including rock, folk and jazz etcetc, this is the one that I find so dull, so over-weaningly self-regarding, so cliched and so unbelievably repetitive.
BUT
in concert, there was performance energy, clear skill-sets, obvious enjoyment in the hall. Whether the BBCSO enjoyed it much.... given that the bits they had to play were pretty undemanding. Or maybe I'm missing the point?
SO
what was the definition of 'classical' that the BBC was hyping, or what defn did Fazer sell to his classes? Is 'classical' just music played by an orchestra? Or what?

Presumably, you just had to be there?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Don't be fooled by the orchestra "enjoying it". I've played in many trashy concerts for children where "dumbing down" was far too mild a term. We we given strict instructions to look as though we were enjoying ourselves, and as we were being paid for it, we did. What we said about it in private afterwards was quite a different matter.

[french frank]

Two things to wonder:

1. Is it a recognition by the Proms that in the 21st century many different musics of different styles sit alongside each other with overlapping audiences and that each should have its place at the Proms which have always had the role of providing 'popular' concerts from the origins. In which case the Proms are no longer to be a classical music festival

or

2. The aim is to bring new audiences to classical music. But in that case, why such a pathetically small amount of music from the classical repertoire? And is there any way of discovering how many of these 'new' audiences subsequently attend a more purely classical Prom? I cannot myself see, as a generalisation, how this particular audience would be attracted to a classical Prom. Just as the Michael Ball Prom was a Michael Ball Concert (with Ball and Boe singing 'Au fond du temple saint' as an acknowledgement that they were performing at a Prom), this one was an urban music gig for the young urban fans.

After the short, sweet life of the Electric Proms, I'd say they're trying to revive the rough idea on the cheap.Something for everyone, musically.

[Resurrection Man]

Two things to wonder:

1. Is it a recognition by the Proms that in the 21st century many different musics of different styles sit alongside each other with overlapping audiences and that each should have its place at the Proms which have always had the role of providing 'popular' concerts from the origins. In which case the Proms are no longer to be a classical music festival

What exactly is an 'overlapping audience'? Someone who likes pop, jazz, (c)rap, classical ? All played at the same time? No....the real answer is that it is a vanity project by R Wright trying to prove how 'hip' he is.

2. The aim is to bring new audiences to classical music. But in that case, why such a pathetically small amount of music from the classical repertoire?

A very good point. I would argue that for the majority of the audience the only reason they went was to see the soloists. They cared diddly squat that there was a backing group of 90+ professional musicians. Last night's banal effort is hardly going to get them to start listening to Elgar.

Won't be long before Prom 35 consists of a DJ and a CD player

[BBMmk2]

I think it's the BBC's ongoing policy of bringing music for everyone type of thing. This is one such instance in trying to get people, who like other genres of music, and making so called 'classical music' so called. for everyone/

[teamsaint]

I think it's the BBC's ongoing policy of bringing music for everyone type of thing. This is one such instance in trying to get people, who like other genres of music, and making so called 'classical music' so called. for everyone/

40 hours of music and arts on BBC1 per year doesn't really suggest that the BBc is that bothered in bringing music to the wider population at all.

[Anna]

Rumour has it that the compilation of contemporary pieces edited out of the BBC Four transmissions is to be broadcast on BBC Three .
Anyone beginning to feel excluded and unwelcome?

Well I don't see why it matters whether it's on BBC3 (ok, that's supposed to be the Youth Channel) or BBC4 (supposedly the highbrow channel for the middle-aged), surely the whole point is that the new commissions, contemporary pieces, whatever, should be broadcast? And, forgive me for banging on about this, when are the two Matthews brothers pieces (which were filmed) ever going to be transmitted?

And in answer to your question, no I don't feel excluded and unwelcome, just extremely annoyed at the editing of certain Proms, what exactly is the BBC policy about this? If they were a commercial station and reliant on audience figures for advertisers to cough up revenue I could understand but, this is the BBC. We expect better!

[amateur51]

Well I don't see why it matters whether it's on BBC3 (ok, that's supposed to be the Youth Channel) or BBC4 (supposedly the highbrow channel for the middle-aged), surely the whole point is that the new commissions, contemporary pieces, whatever, should be broadcast? And, forgive me for banging on about this, when are the two Matthews brothers pieces (which were filmed) ever going to be transmitted?

And in answer to your question, no I don't feel excluded and unwelcome, just extremely annoyed at the editing of certain Proms, what exactly is the BBC policy about this? If they were a commercial station and reliant on audience figures for advertisers to cough up revenue I could understand but, this is the BBC. We expect better!

Well said, Anna

[mercia]

they seem to be letting us listen to (I know - not watch) the "new music" beyond the usual 7 days

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01cmbzg

[french frank]

Well I don't see why it matters whether it's on BBC3 (ok, that's supposed to be the Youth Channel) or BBC4 (supposedly the highbrow channel for the middle-aged), surely the whole point is that the new commissions, contemporary pieces, whatever, should be broadcast? And, forgive me for banging on about this, when are the two Matthews brothers pieces (which were filmed) ever going to be transmitted?

Quite. The emoticon indicated that this was not a serious suggestion. However, the serious answer has already been posited: the best chance is 18 August on the 'New Music' special.


"Particular highlights include the Doctor Who Prom on BBC One, the Urban Classic Prom on BBC Three and 'New Music at the Proms' on BBC Four on 18 August - plus Proms in the Park around the country live online and via the red button." If not then, goodness knows.

[Anna]

Quite. The emoticon indicated that this was not a serious suggestion. However, the serious answer has already been posited: the best chance is 18 August on the 'New Music' special.

"Particular highlights include the Doctor Who Prom on BBC One, the Urban Classic Prom on BBC Three and 'New Music at the Proms' on BBC Four on 18 August - plus Proms in the Park around the country live online and via the red button." If not then, goodness knows.

Well, we shall see. The tv programme is 90 mins long, add up 2 x Matthews (38mins) + McCabe (7mins) + Turnage (15mins) and that's 60 mins (no idea how long the Gold/Dr. Who is), then add in 14 mins for MacMillan, plus 36 mins for the Lachenmann = 110 mins without knowing length of Dr. Who and including how much Urban Prom ??? The figures don't stack up and I have maybe missed some new commissions/premieres, once heard and then consigned to the basement.

And maths never was my strong point! But I fear I have suddenly become OCD!
However, I'll say no more on this subject and just see what August 18th brings (personally I think there is as much chance of seeing the Matthews or the Lachenmann as there is of me being the Controller of R3, but, come to think of it, that's not a bad idea!)

Edit: I realise I am making a fuss about nothing, I've heard it on R3 but I just think others (i.e. the tv audience who don't normally tune in to R3 should also be included. Moi? Inclusive? Well, yes, they might like it and isn't that what Mr. Tick-Box Wright wants - inclusivity?)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

BBC may nominally be the "youth channel", but this is both insulting and patronising to young people. They are not crass as a group, though a percentage of them undoubtedly are, as are many in other demographic groups.

[french frank]

The figures don't stack up and I have maybe missed some new commissions/premieres, once heard and then consigned to the basement.

Not only that - you have to leave time for Tom Service to discuss the music with Gillian Moore, Southbank classical music supremo

Given the length of some of the pieces on the Urban Prom, you'd have thought 210 seconds of classical music in one single burst would have not been thought too onerous. But the Controller of BBC Three is just under 40 (so, I think, is the Director of Television). However, you'd have thought the chairman of the BBC Classical Music Board, responsible for coordinating classical music across radio and television, might have had a bit more clout, seeing his carefully programmed Prom being vandalised.