Prom 36 - 9.08.13: Sir John Eliot Gardiner conducts Bach

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

10.00pm – c. 11.15pm
Royal Albert Hall

Bach
Easter Oratorio (38 mins)
Bach
Ascension Oratorio (32 mins)

Hannah Morrison soprano, Proms debut artist
Meg Bragle mezzo-soprano, Proms debut artist
Nicholas Mulroy tenor
Peter Harvey bass
Monteverdi Choir
English Baroque Soloists
Sir John Eliot Gardiner conductor

Sir John Eliot Gardiner's acclaimed Bach team - most famous for their year-long 'Bach Pilgrimage' in 2000, performing every one of Bach's cantatas - reassemble at the Royal Albert Hall for another Bach feast. On the bill are two complementary oratorios, telling the story of two crucial events in the life of Christ: the Resurrection on Easter Day, and his Ascension into Heaven.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I don't suppose many late night Proms are sell-outs, but surely this one deserves to be...

[doversoul1]

Tonight 10.00pm.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Indeed. Set to record.

[edashtav]

Inane Chatter Riles Sir John

This post was written in a fog of ignorance, please read it in the context of posts #6 & #16.

Glorious, Sir John...
Soli, orchestra and conductor have been rehearsed until they were ready to drop. The Easter Oratorio goes with a swing: that constant identification of the dancing pulse that Sir John brings to his Bach interpretations.

After the disappointment of Mahler's Resurrection Symphony earlier in the evening, I was so ready for Bach's "take" on that event.

Then, comes that modern "necessity" : a live, impromptu, interview on-stage by a half-informed woman (sorry, I can't name her - I didn't start listening until ... she got under my skin). It all went pear-shaped. Glorious Sir John was not "up" for the nonsense, he was difficult, evasive and quite happy to correct basic factual errors in the questioner's desperate efforts to engage his attention. Sir John gloriously demolished the validity of the interview as concept and practice.

Why do musical performers rehearse yet interviewers come cold to their task?

The spell cast by the Easter Oratorio was broken and it took me over five minutes to get on track during Ascension work. That I did was a tribute both to Bach's supreme skill - my mind kept invoking Dan Maskell "What a winner!" and the excellence of the prepared performance.

Come on BBC, please realise that the casual style of so much of the presentation of the Proms on R.3 is excruciating and unacceptable.

(Did I dream that Christopher Cook was back last night?)

[Nick Armstrong]

a half-informed woman (sorry, I can't name her - I didn't start listening until ... she got under my skin)

... it was Catherine Bott, one of the best informed and most convincing presenters on Radio 3 (not least thanks to her main achievements as a performer, including with JEG), and a member of this Forum...

It's been the approach for a while for these late-night Proms to be less formal, with the presenter on stage addressing the audience - and speaking to the conductor.

Even if the part of the interview you heard annoyed you (I haven't heard it, I have recorded the concert), I do think your comment could be more courteously expressed. One for the 'Edit Post' button, perhaps ed?

(Did I dream that Christopher Cook was back last night?)

He was. He's also very good indeed

[Ferretfancy]

I'm afraid I left the hall after the Easter Oratorio. Heard from the Arena we got thin and seedy sounds from the orchestra, a chorus much too loud, and vocally under nourished soloists. The tenor in particular was almost inaudible at times. This was really very routine.

[Richard J.]

it was Catherine Bott, one of the best informed and most convincing presenters on Radio 3

Actually she usually irritates me with her questions, and tonight was no exception, such as asking JEG if he was still passionate about Bach.

I enjoyed the performances, but felt that Peter Harvey (bass) was the only soloist able to handle a hall of that size. The others, all members of the Monteverdi Choir, might be adequate in a small church but were indeed "undernourished" as Ferretfancy said.

What really annoyed me was the restricted-view seat that I had in the Side Stalls, row 10. The enclosure for the wretched boom camera cut off half the choir for me - couldn't see the male singers at all. And they charge £4 for a programme and then turn off the auditorium lighting before the concert, so you can't read it. Not happy with the RAH tonight.

[Tony Halstead]

I'm afraid I left the hall after the Easter Oratorio. Heard from the Arena we got thin and seedy sounds from the orchestra, a chorus much too loud, and vocally under nourished soloists. The tenor in particular was almost inaudible at times. This was really very routine.

I wouldn't use the word 'seedy' to describe a very distinguished orchestra... Maybe you meant 'reedy'?
On the radio the choir was too loud, agreed. However, if you know this choir, conductor and orchestra then you must surely accept, as one of the inescapable facts of life, that the Monteverdi Choir will indeed be 'too loud' for the orchestra. Whenever I used to 'gig' for this conductor in a choral work, sitting in the horn section about 3 feet in front of the choir, I had to resort to earplugs to protect myself from 'industrial injury' caused by an almost painful wall - no, AVALANCHE of sound.
Technically superb but musically questionable.

[Nick Armstrong]

I wouldn't use the word 'seedy' to describe a very distinguished orchestra... Maybe you meant 'reedy'?

Weedy?

On the radio the choir was too loud, agreed. However, if you know this choir, conductor and orchestra then you must surely accept, as one of the inescapable facts of life, that the Monteverdi Choir will indeed be 'too loud' for the orchestra. Whenever I used to 'gig' for this conductor in a choral work, sitting in the horn section about 3 feet in front of the choir, I had to resort to earplugs to protect myself from 'industrial injury' caused by an almost painful wall - no, AVALANCHE of sound.

That's fascinating who'd have thunk it! You could have sued!

As a separate point, I was caught out by the "RAH effect" on a small HIPP band years ago - went to a prom and it felt AS IF I had earplugs in - the band's sound was just swallowed by the acoustic. I'd only ever go to such a concert again there if I were sitting (or standing) just next to them.

(Heard the first 20 mns of my recording (DAB) - I thought it sounded damn good, esp the instrumental opening sections )

[doversoul1]

Re: #5
Catherine Bott does have a slightly ‘in-house’ manner which could be annoying but she is perfectly capable of presenting a concert in a straightforward manner when that is what is required. And if any Radio3 presenter is fully informed on Baroque music, she is. JEG is certainly not the politest of today’s conductors but I don’t think he is that rude to ‘demolish’ the interviewer or the concept. I find he usually makes a good use of these interviews and more that than, I expect JEG knows how far he can go with Catherine Bott since they have ‘met’ in this way on numerous occasions.

I am sorry to go on about it but please realise that putting down a presenter does not always earn one a point. By all means criticise any presenters if you must but please be fair and constructive.

As for the concert, I often find that JEG’s Bach cantatas tend to be too polished to the point of being remote (entirely my own taste) but in the last night performance, as far as listening to it on the radio, the choir and the brass were lively and in many places, exhilarating*, but as has been already mentioned, the soloists were mostly, to me, just adequate, which rather spoilt the whole concert for me. Perhaps Cadogan Hall would have been a better venue?

[ed] *I’ve just read waldhorn’s post. Was it just being ‘loud’ that I took it to be exhilarating? ]

[BBMmk2]

Well iu am not sure if I have missed much here at all?

[teamsaint]

I was in the Gallery, more or less in line with JEG.
Hard to compare sound with other JEG performances, or other RAH vantage points. From where I was, the orchestral sound was actually very good. One or two slight balance problems, but I guess that is inevitable up there. On the whole the orchestral sound was a pleasure.
As for the singers we thought that there were definite sound issues from where we were, but perhaps it was indeed the performances themselves. The tenor in particular seemed a little light, but there was plenty to enjoy, not least the Easter Oratorio which was new to me, and a terrific piece.

The interview? I really don't go that much on these interviews in live contexts, as it is so hard to add anything meaningful, and they are often either too structured, or cheesy. Actually, if CB and JEG can't really make it work then its probably not worth bothering with, no disrespect intended to either.

Glad I stayed on after the Mahler.

[doversoul1]

Well iu am not sure if I have missed much here at all?

You will if you let go. A Bach prom is always very special no matter how much we/I complain about odd bits. As JEG said Bach is indisputable (or something to the effect).

[edashtav]

... it was Catherine Bott, one of the best informed and most convincing presenters on Radio 3 (not least thanks to her main achievements as a performer, including with JEG), and a member of this Forum...

It's been the approach for a while for these late-night Proms to be less formal, with the presenter on stage addressing the audience - and speaking to the conductor.

Even if the part of the interview you heard annoyed you (I haven't heard it, I have recorded the concert), I do think your comment could be more courteously expressed. One for the 'Edit Post' button, perhaps ed?


He was. He's also very good indeed

Thank you for taking me to task, Caliban. It was late & I must have been tired for I didn't recognise Catherine Bott whom I've had great respect (i.e. someone in the Christopher Cook club.) .

Time to withdraw personal remarks but not the heart of the matter. On-stage interviews between major works are invasive and likely to go awry. Hearing an aside from the interviewer last evening something like, "You'll have time for a full tune-up in a minute," indicates the awkward situation. Even football managers are better interviewed at full-time. Musicians do get tense during concerts - I've seen pianists being physically sick in an interval being filled with dread at having to go out and do it all, again.

It should be the music and the performance that occupies a conductor's mind not answering tangential questions - for questions at that point cannot be direct ... just imagine, "Well, Mr. X, the lack of applause at the end of the first half suggested that your performance didn't move your audience. What are you, what can you do, in the second half to restore your stellar reputation?"

Informal interviews can be invasive or intrusive. Rarely do they shine light on a situation for those interviewed have weighty matters on their minds. Such situations may be freighted with more risk when, as you have indicated, Caliban, re JEG and CB, interviewer and interviewee know each other and have worked with each other - private repartee can be a source of confusion to those, like myself, "on the outside".

I should not have questioned either the the ability or knowledge of Catherine Bott - I should have shot the false situation more efficiently and not blamed those caught in its maelstrom.