Prom 35 - 9.08.13: Mahler – 'Resurrection' Symphony

[Resurrection Man]

As a none musician, can someone please explain to me why an orchestra would tune to a different pitch such that it totally alters the balance as in this case and, if I read things right, Also Sprach. Presumably when the Bavarian Radio Orchestra play Saint Saens Organ Symphony they also use a Hammond for that? If that is indeed the case then I for one will never ever ever go listen to them again.

[LHC]

As a none musician, can someone please explain to me why an orchestra would tune to a different pitch such that it totally alters the balance as in this case and, if I read things right, Also Sprach. Presumably when the Bavarian Radio Orchestra play Saint Saens Organ Symphony they also use a Hammond for that? If that is indeed the case then I for one will never ever ever go listen to them again.

Until the 19th century pitch levels across Europe varied widely and had been rising steadily since the baroque period. Effforts to standardise pitch started in the 19th centory, but it was not until 1934 (I think) that an international standard was agreed.

Until standard concert pitch was adopted, levels in the UK varied between A = 452 (High Pitch) and A = 435 (Low Pitch).

Official concert pitch is set at A = 440, and this is now used by most British and American orchestras. However, even here this is not universally true. The New York Philharmonic apparently use A = 442. Most German and Austrian orchestras use A = 443. The Berlin Phil used to use A = 445, but now tune to A = 443. Several HIP ensembles use A = 415 as this is closer to the tuning that would have been used in the baroque period.


This is only a problem when these orchestras go on tour and encounter fixed pitch instruments such as organs with a different tuning standard than the one they use.

[Sir Velo]

Last time I played that recording I had tears running down my cheeks but I felt a distinct lack of the same high emotion on Friday. That is why Jansons failed and Tennstedt triumphed.

Interesting. I remember Bernard Haitink giving an interview with Gramophone in the late 80s in which he related an ancedote about how an acquaintance said he'd gone to a concert of Mahler 2 and had cried all the way through. "What is this?" bewailed a bemused Bernard; "a therapy session? I don't understand this attitude."

[amateur51]

..and it was the RFH organ too, which can sound so pathetic unless the organist has the courage or the instruction, as here, to let fly! Just wait for the release next month of Bernard Haitink's Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antartica on the LPO label, where in the landscape movement the performance demonstrates that that organ, especailly in the quiet underpinning passges, has really deep pedals. Wonderful!

What a prospect LaurieW - many thanks for the alert

[BBMmk2]

..and it was the RFH organ too, which can sound so pathetic unless the organist has the courage or the instruction, as here, to let fly! Just wait for the release next month of Bernard Haitink's Vaughan Williams Sinfonia Antartica on the LPO label, where in the landscape movement the performance demonstrates that that organ, especailly in the quiet underpinning passges, has really deep pedals. Wonderful!

Thanks for that alert LaurieWatt!

[Bax-of-Delights]

My first Mahler2 at the Proms (apparently the first performance at the Proms ever) was Stokowski with the LSO and Janet Baker on July 30th 1963 and no less than FOUR choirs.
I was in the Gallery and I thought my head was going to burst in the final peroration - it was so loud. And he got such a reception that, bless him, he reprised the final section!

[Petrushka]

Interesting. I remember Bernard Haitink giving an interview with Gramophone in the late 80s in which he related an ancedote about how an acquaintance said he'd gone to a concert of Mahler 2 and had cried all the way through. "What is this?" bewailed a bemused Bernard; "a therapy session? I don't understand this attitude."

Not to worry, Sir Velo, I don't make a habit of doing such a thing and I'm well aware of the Haitink quote. It was a completely unexpected reaction to the overwhelming ending. If you haven't heard that superb Tennstedt performance I should remedy the situation without delay!

[Alison]

A most enjoyable trip down memory lane recalling all those previous Proms Resurrections.

I was pleased to hear the symphony again under Jansons even if the special occasion feel was missing from the beginning.

Simon's LSO idea heartily endorsed for a future season. It would be lovely to hear LPO/Jurowski in the Albert Hall too.

[Resurrection Man]

I remember seeing one performance where the choir remained seated for the early choral part but then, as one, stood at the same time as singing out in a very ecstatic fashion. Can anyone tell remind which that one was, please.

Any answer to my question re orchestra pitch (may have missed the answer for which apologies) ?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Any answer to my question re orchestra pitch (may have missed the answer for which apologies) ?

An excellent reply from LHC in #77, Res.

[Resurrection Man]

An excellent reply from LHC in #77, Res.

Ah....mea culpa. Many thanks to both of you.

[Petrushka]

I remember seeing one performance where the choir remained seated for the early choral part but then, as one, stood at the same time as singing out in a very ecstatic fashion. Can anyone tell remind which that one was, please.

This is the norm, I think, due to the likely noise ensuing from a couple of hundred choristers simultaneously rising to their feet. Jansons did so on Friday.

[Resurrection Man]

Sorry for misleading. They remained seated for the early pianissimo pieces etc but then literally shot up towards the end.

[Nick Armstrong]

I remember seeing one performance where the choir remained seated for the early choral part but then, as one, stood at the same time as singing out in a very ecstatic fashion. Can anyone tell remind which that one was, please.

I certainly remember a stirring example of that. I was promming too, front right of fountain. But can I remember who was performing? Not for the moment! I shall try to.

[Flosshilde]

There was nothing 'somnolent' about the BRSO performance in Edinburgh yesterday - fabulous playing, & an exciting account. The Festival Chorus were superb, as were the soloists.