Prom 33 - 8.08.13: Beethoven, Berlioz

[amateur51]

It's called concentration.

I suspect that something a tad more physiological like adrenaline might have something to do with it too

[johnb]

I suspect that something a tad more physiological like adrenaline might have something to do with it too

For audiences, I think that the coughing is often inversely proportional to the intensity of the performance.

[gradus]

The most animated accompanist is unquestionably Malcolm Martineau whose worK I admire hugely but who visibly lives every semiquaver.

[Stan Drews]

A pedant writes:

Sorry, but the rasping notes in the Berlioz have nothing to do with bass trombones in G or any other key. The low Bbs/As specified are pedal (ie fundamental) notes on the standard tenor instrument and are unplayable on the G instrument (OK - stick a 'D' valve in, but the effect will be lost). Berlioz knew what he was doing with trombone pedal notes - cf the Hostias in the Requiem. It's a matter of opinion whether he was right - Cecil Forsyth in his treatise on Orchestration stated [words to the effect] "it probably sounds pretty ghastly": Gordon Jacob, years later: "The present author has heard it - it does". Berlioz was aware of the bass trombone (in F, as I recall) as he mentions it in his his memoirs while in Berlin. Nevertheless, the tendency has been for French/Belgian composers to write for three tenor instruments, which can lead to some unexpected moments of glory for the third player, as in the Franck symphony or Bizet's L'Arlesienne.

Elsewhere on this this thread: for what it's worth, I had the great pleasure of hearing Clifford Curzon several times late in life - didn't notice any gurning - didn't care about the wrong notes. Just, wow!

[alywin]

"Cough sweets" worry me. One could easily be aspirated during a coughing fit. A swig of water would be safer.

I thought so, until fairly recently I decided to take a swig of water part-way through a performance to ward off a cough, and the water actually *caused* the coughing fit!.

How is it that performers don't cough, but audiences can't even make the effort to remain un-tussed? I'm just listening to the re-broadcast of Egdon Heath and there are far too many bronchitics!

Did you notice the enormous gap between the 1st and 2nd movement, I think it was, of the Beethoven (although it might have been the Berlioz)? Jansons was waiting for quiet in the hall: he had a *very* long wait.

But as for performers: I saw him a few years ago at the RFH, with the Bavarians, I think, since I don't think the Concertgebouw has played there in a good while. I can't remember what he was conducting, but after one of the movements he gave a really bad hacking cough, then got back to work, and then the same again after the end of one of the other movements. He clearly had a bad cold or something, but you wouldn't have known it while the music was being played, so I guess concentration or focus is part of the answer. Certainly, on a few of the occasions since then that I've felt one of my dreaded coughing fits coming on I've tried concentrating really hard on the performance, and have managed to prevent the fit from happening.

[Hornspieler]

aeoliumWhat were your reasons for mentioning Clifford Curzon, EA? I saw him several times mainly late on in his career and he seemed to me either raptly absorbed or full of his delight in the music (for instance, when playing his favourite Brahms intermezzi or Schubert impromptus). My main concern was whether his nerves, or perhaps the technical frailty that seemed to affect him in later years, would precipitate some disaster, but I always enjoyed watching him play.

He appeared to talk to himself, though I suspect he was counting to keep in time.

Technical frailty? Whenever he played with us, he was surrounded with broken piano strings. Crash, bang, wallop! Our tame piano tuner who travelled everywhere with us with his beloved Steinway (a gift from Lady Cobham, our president's wife) used to be in despair.

HS

[Hornspieler]

A pedant writes:

Sorry, but the rasping notes in the Berlioz have nothing to do with bass trombones in G or any other key. The low Bbs/As specified are pedal (ie fundamental) notes on the standard tenor instrument and are unplayable on the G instrument (OK - stick a 'D' valve in, but the effect will be lost). Berlioz knew what he was doing with trombone pedal notes - cf the Hostias in the Requiem. It's a matter of opinion whether he was right - Cecil Forsyth in his treatise on Orchestration stated [words to the effect] "it probably sounds pretty ghastly": Gordon Jacob, years later: "The present author has heard it - it does". Berlioz was aware of the bass trombone (in F, as I recall) as he mentions it in his his memoirs while in Berlin. Nevertheless, the tendency has been for French/Belgian composers to write for three tenor instruments, which can lead to some unexpected moments of glory for the third player, as in the Franck symphony or Bizet's L'Arlesienne.

Elsewhere on this this thread: for what it's worth, I had the great pleasure of hearing Clifford Curzon several times late in life - didn't notice any gurning - didn't care about the wrong notes. Just, wow!

Very interesting.

HS

[salymap]

I enjoyed Clifford Curzon's playing but he was a very nervy man. I remember at a rehearsal of, I think, the Emperor Concerto he crashed down on the keyboard and the prop holding the piano open slipped and as it came down he gave a really loud scream, removing
his hands from danger quickly. I remember it took some time before the rehearsal resumed.

Regarding Uchida, this doesn't explain everything but I rather think she is short sighted.
As someone who has had this problem for years I saw the way she screwed up her eyes to focus on the conductor.

[johnb]

I enjoyed Clifford Curzon's playing but he was a very nervy man. I remember at a rehearsal of, I think, the Emperor Concerto he crashed down on the keyboard and the prop holding the piano open slipped and as it came down he gave a really loud scream, removing his hands from danger quickly. I remember it took some time before the rehearsal resumed.

There was a wonderful post by Peter Katin on the old MBs in which he relates some of his memories of Clifford Curzon. This is just too good to be left, forgotten, in the archives:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6643900?thread=4191143&skip=0&show=50#p49117085

[Nick Armstrong]

There was a wonderful post by Peter Katin on the old MBs in which he relates some of his memories of Clifford Curzon. This is just too good to be left, forgotten, in the archives:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6...w=50#p49117085

Thank you johnb

I remember that post!

Quite apart from the musical wisdom, the parked car story is perfect!

[salymap]

There was a wonderful post by Peter Katin on the old MBs in which he relates some of his memories of Clifford Curzon. This is just too good to be left, forgotten, in the archives:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbradio3/F6...w=50#p49117085

Thanks a lot johnb. Just before I joined in Sept 2007 - lovely to see gamba, smittims and of course Peter Katin himself, such an interesting thread from the past.

[Nick Armstrong]

Best to stick to Radio 3 with old Mitsuko or sit well back in the stalls and forget your glasses.

I think she is getting more animated at the piano - I saw her accompany Ian Bostridge in Die Schone Mullerin at Aldeburgh a few years back and I do not recall all that gurning and surprised eyebrow stuff then .

It could have been worse - thank your stars she forgot her glasses for the Prom....



His Grace - sorry saly, HRH - the Duke and old Milly-thingy seem to have taken grave exception to Dame Edna's... err sorry Dame Mitsuko's eye-wear...

I love her though - that Beethoven was absolutely mesmerising!

[salymap]

HRH the Duke surely, if that's Eddie ?

[Nick Armstrong]

HRH the Duke surely, if that's Eddie ?

It's not, it's Kent isn't it... But you're right, it's HRH...

[amateur51]

HRH the Duke surely, if that's Eddie ?

It's da Dook of Kent innit