Prom 33 - 8.08.13: Beethoven, Berlioz

[Mr Pee]

I agree the performance was aurally wonderful, but a real concert performance (as opposed to a CD) is partly a visual experience as well. It matters. The distractions worried me, but they were less important in the Beethoven than they were in the Schubert recital mentioned earlier. If the singer is giving a marvellous interpretation of Schubert songs, I do not want to see the pianist mouthing all the words and generally giving her own entirely separate performance. It was impossible to ignore. But then, Uchida is not really an accompanist.

Some cellists are hard to watch, too. For some reason I've never noticed problems with violinists.

Thank you for that considered reply, in pleasant contrast to Barbirollians.

I see your point entirely. I suppose we just approach the matter differently- I can understand that in the Lieder recital you mention that it could distract from the actual singing and therefore skew the recital to some extent. However in concerti or solo recitals I find the sight of a musician deeply involved in the music and showing that can actually increase my sense of involvement, whether that be a cellist, pianist or any other musician,as long as it is clearly natural and part of the perofrmance, and not simply put on for show, which can sometimes be the case.

I think with violinists the physical requirements of the instrument- the way it is held etc, somewhat limit the possibility of too much emoting anyway, although some manage a fair amount!

[Hornspieler]

[from Brassbandmaestro -' Could have chucked an overture or something similar in as well.']

...or even the repeat in the March to the Scaffold.

But what wonderful playing from this great orchestra, what beauty of sound in an extraordinarily civilised performance ... which ultimately bored me out of my mind. Cutely formed shimmering thunder at the end of the Scene du Champs. Where were the wonderful rasping raspberries from the bass trombone in the March to the Scaffold? What about the tinkling doorbell they used for the last movement and so on. Oh dear!

But I loved the Beethoven. I loved Uchida's way with this most gorgeous of Beethoven's concerti and beautifully accompanied by the Bavarians. I listened on the radio so had no distractions from any stage mannerisms with which she appears to have irritated some correspondents!

I have not seen or heard this prom yet, but will hopefully catch up with it tonight.

I remember hearing an LP of Silvestri conducting the Berlioz with a French Orchestra many years ago. The bass trombone part was played on the then traditional G trombone and those rasping notes in the "March to the Scaffold" rattled the plates on our dresser.

The late Godfrey Kneller (RPO) fought for years to preserve the old G trombone in this country, but the desire to blend with the others in the section (and to use a thumb valve to reach the lower notes, instead of hitting someone in the back with a fully extended slide) won the day.

But that G trombone, narrower in bore and with an extension handle to push the slide right out, was the ideal instrument to produce that gorgeous rasping effect.

I hope to contribute my reactions to this concert later.

HS

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Some cellists are hard to watch, too. For some reason I've never noticed problems with violinists.

Many musicians can be magnificent to listen to, but less so to watch (for a variety of reasons). I suggest the following:
Nigel Kennedy
Tasmin Little
Lang Lang
Clifford Curzon
Heinz Holliger
Jacqueline Du Pre

[Hornspieler]

Many musicians can be magnificent to listen to, but less so to watch (for a variety of reasons). I suggest the following:
Nigel Kennedy
Tasmin Little
Lang Lang
Clifford Curzon
Heinz Holliger
Jacqueline Du Pre

Especially Jacqueline Du Pre! She should have spent more attention watching Pierre Fournier and less watching Paul Tortelier.

You're supposed to take the bow to the cello - not the cello to the bow. Most distracting, and all that hair tossing didn't help.

But for all that, a wonderful player to listen to.

HS

[aeolium]

Many musicians can be magnificent to listen to, but less so to watch (for a variety of reasons). I suggest the following:
Nigel Kennedy
Tasmin Little
Lang Lang
Clifford Curzon
Heinz Holliger
Jacqueline Du Pre

What were your reasons for mentioning Clifford Curzon, EA? I saw him several times mainly late on in his career and he seemed to me either raptly absorbed or full of his delight in the music (for instance, when playing his favourite Brahms intermezzi or Schubert impromptus). My main concern was whether his nerves, or perhaps the technical frailty that seemed to affect him in later years, would precipitate some disaster, but I always enjoyed watching him play.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Many musicians can be magnificent to listen to, but less so to watch (for a variety of reasons). I suggest the following:
Nigel Kennedy
Tasmin Little
Lang Lang
Clifford Curzon
Heinz Holliger
Jacqueline Du Pre

Indeed - Brendel and Rattle, too. Performers are often unaware of what they look like when they perform, and, if concentrating on what they look like gets in the way of their Music-making, then it's a poor return. I just shut eyes, or focus on a part of the concert hall if I find the funny faces distracting.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I had a ticket for the RAH but I'm suffering from a dry cough, so this coffin wrecker stayed at home with radio 3.

There being no official medal for such magnificent self-sacrifice, ed, I hereby award you the Golden Order of the Ferney for selfless consideration of other Music lovers, above and beyond the call of duty.

[Ferretfancy]

[from Brassbandmaestro -' Could have chucked an overture or something similar in as well.']

...or even the repeat in the March to the Scaffold.

But what wonderful playing from this great orchestra, what beauty of sound in an extraordinarily civilised performance ... which ultimately bored me out of my mind. Cutely formed shimmering thunder at the end of the Scene du Champs. Where were the wonderful rasping raspberries from the bass trombone in the March to the Scaffold? What about the tinkling doorbell they used for the last movement and so on. Oh dear!

But I loved the Beethoven. I loved Uchida's way with this most gorgeous of Beethoven's concerti and beautifully accompanied by the Bavarians. I listened on the radio so had no distractions from any stage mannerisms with which she appears to have irritated some correspondents!

Presumably you were listening to the usually remote and stodgy BBC balance, all the instrumental effects were there in full force in the hall with the thundering drums in the slow movement offstage and sounding like a storm over our heads. I could have done with a more massive bell, but it was loud enough, and so were those snarls.

[Ferretfancy]

Regarding short measure, we did get a beautiful solo Bach encore by Uchida, and an exciting orchestral encore after the Berlioz. This was a fine piece of virtuosity in Roumanian style complete with gipsy violin pyrotechnics from the leader of the orchestra. It wasn't either of the Enescu rhapsodies, but opinions were divided, perhaps early Ligeti ?

It's unusual to have encores when there is a late night Prom scheduled. It must have been a bit of a rush getting set up for Nige.

[salymap]

Indeed - Brendel and Rattle, too. Performers are often unaware of what they look like when they perform, and, if concentrating on what they look like gets in the way of their Music-making, then it's a poor return. I just shut eyes, or focus on a part of the concert hall if I find the funny faces distracting.

I am glad that Gergiev has had a haircut- his greasy wisps of hair got in the way of my enjoyment. And Rattle's gurning too. Eyes shut for both.

[alywin]

Regarding short measure, we did get a beautiful solo Bach encore by Uchida, and an exciting orchestral encore after the Berlioz. This was a fine piece of virtuosity in Roumanian style complete with gipsy violin pyrotechnics from the leader of the orchestra. It wasn't either of the Enescu rhapsodies, but opinions were divided, perhaps early Ligeti ?

It's unusual to have encores when there is a late night Prom scheduled. It must have been a bit of a rush getting set up for Nige.

It looked to me as though the orchestra had several encores prepared: possibly Uchida's one took away valuable performing time. I noticed someone who I assumed was the stage manager or something giving what seemed to be a very clearly "one only" signal. It should be pointed out that they finished with a good 45 minutes to spare before the late concert was due to start: the fact that that one started 10 minutes late was, I guess, due to bag searches slowing the inflow of audience members rather than the previous concert running on too long.

[edashtav]

There being no official medal for such magnificent self-sacrifice, ed, I hereby award you the Golden Order of the Ferney for selfless consideration of other Music lovers, above and beyond the call of duty.

Gosh - what an honour. If it comes with / without a Bar - may I have one with Bar, please?

[LaurieWatt]

What were your reasons for mentioning Clifford Curzon, EA? I saw him several times mainly late on in his career and he seemed to me either raptly absorbed or full of his delight in the music (for instance, when playing his favourite Brahms intermezzi or Schubert impromptus). My main concern was whether his nerves, or perhaps the technical frailty that seemed to affect him in later years, would precipitate some disaster, but I always enjoyed watching him play.

Clifford Curzon was - and still is - one of my favourite pianists but, oh dear, he was not one to watch; his facial contortions were an extreme abuse of his facial geometry; it looked as though he was giving birth - but in a sense the act of creation was exactly what he was participating in, as his performances always sounded as though they had just evolved off the manuscript paper with the ink still wet....wonderful.

[LaurieWatt]

Presumably you were listening to the usually remote and stodgy BBC balance, all the instrumental effects were there in full force in the hall with the thundering drums in the slow movement offstage and sounding like a storm over our heads. I could have done with a more massive bell, but it was loud enough, and so were those snarls.

You are, of course, correct, Ferret, in that listening in the home cannot really recreate the aural experience in the hall. However, the broadcast orchestral balance was better than it often is and I was listening on very high quality equipment at a high bit rate through Internet radio and at a realistic volume. I love the Bavarians and have been to hear them in their hall in Munich but here at this Prom it all sounded so manicured; everything was immaculate without a note out of place; yes, there were some exciting sounds but not always in the right places and given that we were graced with encores in both halves of the concert it was a crime not to do the repeat in the March to the Scaffold. I just thought most of it was, whilst extremely musical, just frightfully dull. I am extremely glad that you and others got more from it!

[Nick Armstrong]

Gosh - what an honour. If it comes with / without a Bar - may I have one with Bar, please?

I will certainly supply the Bar to your well-merited Ferney Gong - I read your post yesterday in circumstances where I couldn't reply, but I too extended a virtual and a in recognition of your noble and selfless action on behalf of other concert-goers

And talking of Bar: what are you having? ? ?

Hope the cough's cleared up!