Prom 20 - 28.07.13: Wagner – Götterdämmerung

[Bert Coules]

Whereas by contrast this has rather lost me now. Act two isn't holding my attention at all, I'm afraid.

[Petrushka]

Bert, what performance are you listening to? Here in the hall it's absolutely gripping!

[Bert Coules]

For some reason I just couldn't get back into it after the interval. These things happen. I'm delighted that people have enjoyed this Ring so much; I wish I could have been one of them.

[Resurrection Man]

Have to confess that I am with Bert on this. Pleasantly surprised in Act 1...good tempo...thought we were on an express train for his journey...but then...ah well....not engaging for me.

[Flosshilde]

I was only able to listen to Act 3, & it certainly worked for me.

[ahinton]

I was only able to listen to Act 3, & it certainly worked for me.

Sadly, that's all I was able to listen to as well but, likewise, it worked for me - not merely that, but I thought it outstanding. It's vital for the success of the music itself that the macro and the micro of it all assert themselves equally and there can be no doubt that the tiniest details of pacing are all there in Wagner's miraculously constructed score - and Barenboim and his musicians brought it all to the fore splendidly, as far as I am concerned.

[Simon B]

Pretty extraordinary scenes in the hall at the end. I think I have experienced something like it before (only at Proms - those involving Placido Domingo essentially!) but only just.

In a very limited way I can sort-of identify with what some of the less enthusiastic posters here have been saying throughout. This evening the whole section from Siegfried's funeral march through to Brunnhilde's last words inclusive was exceedingly beautiful (and Nina Stemme fabulous to my ignorant-of-the-technicalities ears) but I wasn't overwhelmed in the way I have been in previous less starry performances. However, that came out of nowhere in the final moments. That doesn't however mean I wasn't on my feet with everyone else after. Clarity and beauty over drama at times perhaps, but I'm still... quite glad I was there!

[Bert Coules]

Simon B, that was a remarkably long and rapt hush after the final note of act three, followed by an unusually unanimous roar from the audience. Did Barenboim conduct the silence and then co-ordinate the outburst? Hands held aloft for a good few seconds, followed by a decisive downbeat and a subtle slump of the shoulders will do it. My initial reaction was that if it did happen it was maybe a touch too manipulative, but on reflection perhaps it's no bad thing to bring the entire audience to its own concerted climax after such a marathon of uninterrupted listening.

[Stephen Smith]

A huge drawback to proms performances is the consistent roar the very moment the last note has (supposedly) ended. Last night at Tristan, the transition to the roar then applause was seamless. It so destroys culmination of a great work, it makes me wonder if it is worth the expense and trouble of going to Proms performances. However Barenboim managed to maintain an appropriate silence, I do wish other conductors could achieve the same.

[KipperKid]

A huge drawback to proms performances is the consistent roar the very moment the last note has (supposedly) ended. Last night at Tristan, the transition to the roar then applause was seamless. It so destroys culmination of a great work, it makes me wonder if it is worth the expense and trouble of going to Proms performances. However Barenboim managed to maintain an appropriate silence, I do wish other conductors could achieve the same.

I've been to a few concerts where the conductor has asked for a silent pause before applause. A recent Bruckner 9 at the RFH springs to mind.

At proms, too many people seek to be the first 'clapper' so much so that they have to start before the music has actually finished, never mind died away.

[gurnemanz]

This evening the whole section from Siegfried's funeral march through to Brunnhilde's last words inclusive was exceedingly beautiful (and Nina Stemme fabulous to my ignorant-of-the-technicalities ears) but I wasn't overwhelmed in the way I have been in previous less starry performances.

We've seen Nina Stemme twice - her exquisite Isolde at ROH a few years ago and in Siegfried at RAH 2 days ago. I listened with great pleasure to a lot of tonight's broadcast but was much more aware of her vibrato, which I didn't find entirely appealing - more so on the radio evidently than on those live occasions (especially in contrast to Waltraud Meier in the Act I duologue). No expert critic, just a personal reaction.

[Bert Coules]

At proms, too many people seek to be the first 'clapper'...

There was an extraordinary Parsifal at the Proms same years back, conducted by Boulez. For the next week or so the conversation about it was almost entirely focussed on the incredibly loud shout - scream almost - of BRAVO! from one Prommer at the very micro-second the final note of act three faded away. He must have taken a deep breath in preparation during the last few seconds. Several of the national newspaper critics mentioned it too. Very odd behaviour and completely fatal to the atmosphere of the end of the piece.

[KipperKid]

There was an extraordinary Parsifal at the Proms same years back, conducted by Boulez. For the next week or so the conversation about it was almost entirely focussed on the incredibly loud shout - scream almost - of BRAVO! from one Prommer at the very micro-second the final note of act three faded away. He must have taken a deep breath in preparation during the last few seconds. Several of the national newspaper critics mentioned it too. Very odd behaviour and completely fatal to the atmosphere of the end of the piece.

Wagner specified no applause at the end of Parsifal, so that makes it double-bad!

I was at a Parsifal prom nearly ten years ago (Rattle, Rotterdam et al) and there was an appropriate pause before we all went ape-shit!

But what motivates people to show off like that?

[gurnemanz]

There was an extraordinary Parsifal at the Proms same years back, conducted by Boulez. For the next week or so the conversation about it was almost entirely focussed on the incredibly loud shout - scream almost - of BRAVO! from one Prommer at the very micro-second the final note of act three faded away. He must have taken a deep breath in preparation during the last few seconds. Several of the national newspaper critics mentioned it too. Very odd behaviour and completely fatal to the atmosphere of the end of the piece.

I went to that Boulez Parsifal over two nights (early seventies?). I was standing in the Arena and remember Bernard Levin sitting nearby in the stalls but can't actually recall the "Bravo". My next Parsifal was Rene Kollo in a concert performance in Leipzig. The East Germans were so ecstatic at finally getting a performance in the city of the composer's birth that they clapped for about half an hour at the end. I have a recording of that very concert on CD.

[Bert Coules]

Wagner specified no applause at the end of Parsifal, so that makes it double-bad!

Actually, no he didn't. He made a single ambiguous remark about the end of act one which for many years was treated as a firm instruction not to clap at that point, with the absurd result that people who did applaud found themselves loudly hissed and booed by the "real Wagnerians" resulting in a far more unpleasant and mood-damaging experience than the clapping alone would have been. And Wagner later made it quite clear that he approved just as much of applause for Parsifal as he did for his other pieces.

On one splendid occasion, sitting in the audience for a Parsifal performance, he himself applauded during act two (at the flower maidens, naturally) whereupon the person behind him told him in no uncertain terms to shut up and respect the music.

Gurnemanz, I envy you having no memory of the boorish bravoer. His contribution still sometimes rings in my memory.