Prom 4 - 14.07.13: Les Siècles – The Rite of Spring

[Tony Halstead]

One can certainly hear the pronounced vibrato of the Parisian 'cors-de-chasses' in a wonderful old Emil Berliner wax cylinder recording from the 1890s but my understanding is that there were two distinct styles: that of the hunting horn, with vibrato, and 'orchestral' style, without vibrato.

[BBMmk2]

Well, I havnt heard Le Sacre, as yet, but as far as the first half, I thought the playing was rather banal, or polite, as JLW pit it, and the gaps in betwewen the movements of the suites, was rather long too. Not a verry good first half at any rate.

[Ferretfancy]

Prom 4

I went to last night's fascinating Prom by Les Siecles conducted by Francois-Xavier Roth in a programme of Lully, Rameau, Delibes, Massenet, and of course the Rite of Spring.
Each item was played on appropriate instruments of the period, and it was particularly interesting to see M. Roth conducting the Lully with a staff banging on the rostrum floor, though unlike Lully he had obviously decided that historical accuracy was one thing, but the onset of gangrene quite another !
I was particularly impressed by the richness of the sound, particularly with the early woodwinds and brass. Later, in the Coppelia and Le Cid extracts, the use of cornets a piston rather than trumpets gave a much more incise quality to the louder passages than we hear today.

I did feel that some of the speeds were a little too fast, particularly in the Lully, where the articyulation suffered a bit. Perhaps they all needed time to get used to the spaces of the RAH.

After the interval the forces on the platform got much larger for The Rite of Spring, and this was excellent. Roth had gone to a great deal of trouble to trace some of Stravinsky's original manuscripts, and so some of the details in the scoring differed from the edition from 1960 that we normally hear. The impact was huge and details came through that I had not heard before. One thing that struck me was the beginning of part two.The strange quality here took on a haunted feeling, perhaps a bit slower than usual, half dreamt.

The television cameras were there last night, and I will make a point of watching for the stranger instruments in close up, but I doubt if the impact will be as exciting as it was in the hall

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I see we have a second thread on Prom 4. The normal prodedure would be to merge them. I can't do this when using my phone, so will leave things as they are until I arrive home. However, if another Host (or Administrator) gets there firstn it would be appreciated.

[Done].

ff

[Hornspieler]

I didn't quite catch what SMP said about the edition of Rite being played except that Boosey & Hawkes had given special permission to use it. wikipedia says there's a B&H 16333 and a B&H 19441, I guess it was one of those (?) - she said we would notice some differences to any Rite we had heard before (or words to that effect).

I expect there's some information in the programme notes, which I can't see grrrrr

Are we not, in fact, not talking about Breitkopf und Hartel?

HS

[mercia]

Are we in fact not talking about Breitkopf und Hartel?

I don't think so - though I'm more than happy to be corrected on the matter

[salymap]

No it was Boosey but they imported a lot of Russian music and I think the 1947 Rite was theirs in this country.
At the hire library we also had the old Russian edition, which made reading the titles a bit problematic.


I don't know whether Boosey & Hawkes are still around but they published the Anglo-Soviet edition and it was much respected by conductors.

[amateur51]

Loved it!

Dramatic use of silences.

I enjoyed it all too - it was a wonderful experiment and as such it was a great success I feel. As Simon Rattle and others have remarked, we now live in an age where any orchestra worth its salt can play Le Sacre in its sleep. To hear it played with such vivid instrumentation and with such air around the music was a revelation.

[amateur51]

No it was Boosey but they imported a lot of Russian music and I think the 1947 Rite was theirs in this country.
At the hire library we also had the old Russian edition, which made reading the titles a bit problematic.

Ah well done salymap - the voice of the orchestral librarian speaks!

[BBMmk2]

Yes salymap, as i have a number of the composers from Russia, included inmy pocket scores, from Boosey.

[Hornspieler]

No it was Boosey but they imported a lot of Russian music and I think the 1947 Rite was theirs in this country.
At the hire library we also had the old Russian edition, which made reading the titles a bit problematic.


I don't know whether Boosey & Hawkes are still around but they published the Anglo-Soviet edition and it was much respected by conductors.

Thanks for that, Sal. These Initials can be very confusing. For instance, how many BSOs are there?

Berlin, Bournemouth, Boston, Bavarian, Bratislava?

HS

[Ferretfancy]

PS To make it really HIPP maybe you ought to throw some rotten vegetables/start a riot?

I did gently suggest this at the pre Prom talk, but there were no takers !

[salymap]

Thanks for that, Sal. These Initials can be very confusing. For instance, how many BSOs are there?

Berlin, Bournemouth, Boston, Bavarian, Bratislava?

HS

Yes I got quite excited about a new BSO concert post - alas it was Boston,I think ;)

[cloughie]

Thanks for that, Sal. These Initials can be very confusing. For instance, how many BSOs are there?

Berlin, Bournemouth, Boston, Bavarian, Bratislava?

HS

My indexing calls them BRSO, BoSO, BSO, BavRSO, BratSO respectively.

[ardcarp]

BRSO

...and I always thought that was the Bognor Regis Symphony Orchestra.