Prom 1: First Night of the Proms

[ardcarp]

I'd like to say 'welcome' too, Daniel. I think SH is a fine pianist and his technical ability in the Rach was amazing. I just felt the result was less than the sum of the parts...for whatever reason.

[edashtav]

We should also remember that, in the 20s, 30s and 40s, the only person who didn't make any money out of Stravinsky's Russian-published works was the composer himself (unless he was involved as a performer) - he had no rights to his own most profitable (to others) creations. Disney paid him a fee for "allowing" The Rite to be used in Fantasia, but pointed out that, if the composer didn't "allow" it, they'd use it anyway and just not pay him! Nor did Stravinsky profit very much from the newer editions: performers in the US continued to use the old versions. ('Though a few - Szell, I believe, was one - paid for the hire of the B&H editions so that the composer got his Royalties, but used the old versions in concert!)


Erm - none of which has much to do with the Sea Symphony

Good and powerful points, & yes, we have gone off-piste.
Time to move on - as Dr Who must have said.

[Daniel]

Thanks for the welcomes, Eine Alpensinfonie and ardcarp.

I've had that feeling frequently enough about performances, ardcarp. It's just that on this occasion I felt the opposite, and rather unequivocally so, which is why I think I posted at all. It wasn't his technique I was responding to I don't think, perhaps there are many more natural ones around, more a kind of cerebral way he appeared to have approached the (non cerebral?) music. It doesn't always work for me, but I found it invigorating on this occasion.
My music listening is greatly enhanced by many of the inspiring/knowledgeable posts on this forum, often I find myself in agreement and perhaps sometimes have my opinion coloured by their insights. The depth of knowledge here is extraordinary. Mine is ordinary. But I seemed to hear something quite new in the Rachmaninov, for which I was rather grateful, hence my post.

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks for the welcomes, Eine Alpensinfonie and ardcarp.

I've had that feeling frequently enough about performances, ardcarp. It's just that on this occasion I felt the opposite, and rather unequivocally so, which is why I think I posted at all. It wasn't his technique I was responding to I don't think, perhaps there are many more natural ones around, more a kind of cerebral way he appeared to have approached the (non cerebral?) music. It doesn't always work for me, but I found it invigorating on this occasion.
My music listening is greatly enhanced by many of the inspiring/knowledgeable posts on this forum, often I find myself in agreement and perhaps sometimes have my opinion coloured by their insights. The depth of knowledge here is extraordinary. Mine is ordinary. But I seemed to hear something quite new in the Rachmaninov, for which I was rather grateful, hence my post.

It's been good reading your first two posts, Daniel - welcome from me too

It's most interesting, your point about the 'cerebral' approach to 'non-cerebral' music... As you may have seen above, I'm in the 'it didn't work for me' camp on this one. It's strange, because I've heard him in other things, read some of Hough's writing - whilst cerebral, he's also got a mischievous, quirky sense of humour. That's what struck me as missing in the Rachmaninov.

By coincidence, I switched on the DAB radio in the kitchen earlier, which has some past CD Reviews recorded onto an SD card. The first thing I heard was the recent recording of the Paganini Rhapsody, conducted by Abbado, with a young pianist called Yuja Wang.

It seems to me to have the sort of character that for me was lacking in the Prom performance.* Judge for yourself - if you play each of the 'samples' for the album on this MP3 page, you can hear much of the piece as each track is so short:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Rachmaninov/dp/B004MGQOYY/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1373755752&sr=8-2&keywords=Yuja+Wang%3A+Rachmaninov

There's a lightness, a sparkle, that it seems to me the writing calls out for, and that I didn't hear in the RAH on Friday night...

But the divergence of views - the 'meat/poison' divide - is one of the good things about this Forum and I hope you'll keep posting and let us have many more of your views



* Mind you - one of the 'citizen reviewers' on that page, "villegem", goes to town analysing the editing of the album - I found that an intriguing read... and it's perhaps unfair to compare this disc with the undoubtedly live (!) performance you were discussing!

[jayne lee wilson]

I've already made my feelings clear about this Rachmaninov performance (msg53), but surely in this of all concertante works, you can't really consider pianist/orchestra/conductor separately - can you? Rhythmic co-ordination and precision are the life-blood of the work, and if the pianist has an unusual conception of their part (as some have suggested was the case with Hough) then shouldn't they be sure that the conductor&orchestra (who have an almost equal role to the soloist here) can follow them (in every sense)? And if they can't (or won't...) doesn't that say something about the pianist and/or their conception?

But essentially it was the wrong piece in the wrong place, a highly original masterpiece that deserves far greater respect than this kind of programming gives to it.

[Alison]

Interesting. I listened to the Rach twice before reading this thread and found myself absorbed in what Houghy was doing but now realise I was paying very little attention to the orchestra - unusual for me.

Much more accuracy than with Stephen's previous First Night appearance (Tchaikovsky), I feel it possible to reconcile the views expressed above: Fresh and engaging pianism from Houghy without much sense of overall triumph.

Rehearsal time probably an issue within a very long programme.

Piano works have had quite a run in recent First Nights and perhaps time for a change next year.

[salymap]

No good living in the past, inevitable in the 80s though. I still remember with aff
ection the performances of Cyril Smith in the Rach Variations. He studed with Rachmaninov and brought the right amount of gravitas, humour and all the right notes in the right order.

I found it easier not to look at Hough's rather strained expression and listen with my eyes shut. Perhaps the heat of the hall got to him.

[BBMmk2]

No good living in the past, inevitable in the 80s though. I still remember with aff
ection the performances of Cyril Smith in the Rach Variations. He studed with Rachmaninov and brought the right amount of gravitas, humour and all the right notes in the right order.

I found it easier not to look at Hough's rather strained expression and listen with my eyes shut. Perhaps the heat of the hall got to him.

That reminds me of that Morecambe & Wise sketch, saly. When Eric Morecambe said to Andre Previn(or Andrew Preview!), I may be playing the wroing notes buit they are the rightr notes, in a different order(or words to that effect!

[salymap]

Yes Bbm, that's where I got it from and a never to be forgotten programme.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I recall Stephen Hough playing all the Tchaikovsky works for piano and orchestra a few seasons ago, and how discussions seemed to highlight his playing being afected by his nerves. This must be quite a challenge.

[salymap]

If so EA I'm sorry for him as every concert must be a dreadful struggle. Clifford Curzon and Joseph Cooper were both like that and, as you say, a challenge.

[amateur51]

If so EA I'm sorry for him as every concert must be a dreadful struggle. Clifford Curzon and Joseph Cooper were both like that and, as you say, a challenge.

I've attended a masterclass in London by Stephen Hough and he is a very generous teacher, full of imagination and ideas and patience. He clearly prepares very well and has worked out what he needs to do to get the effects that he wants. He's welcome on any concert platform as far as I'm concerned - I wonder if he does much chamber music.

[Daniel]

I agree that SH's performance didn't sparkle as some do ...maybe I could say for me it twinkled knowingly, but that is perhaps why I found myself liking it so much. I agree there was some scrappiness in the ensemble, and ensemble does seems pretty integral to the character of the piece, but on this occasion I happily took it in my stride and remained very engaged.

On the subject of nerves, one of the best concerts I've ever been to was a recital by Peter Serkin in (the) Wigmore Hall, playing late Beethoven sonatas. He was shaking so much at the beginning that he seemed to have to hang on to the keyboard as he played to stop himself falling to the floor. But the end result was utterly magical and really changed the way I thought about music.

Thanks for the link to the Yuja Wang, Caliban, I do love this kind of approach to the work too, it was just good to hear it approached differently.

[amateur51]

I agree that SH's performance didn't sparkle as some do ...maybe I could say for me it twinkled knowingly, but that is perhaps why I found myself liking it so much. I agree there was some scrappiness in the ensemble, and ensemble does seems pretty integral to the character of the piece, but on this occasion I happily took it in my stride and remained very engaged.

On the subject of nerves, one of the best concerts I've ever been to was a recital by Peter Serkin in (the) Wigmore Hall, playing late Beethoven sonatas. He was shaking so much at the beginning that he seemed to have to hang on to the keyboard as he played to stop himself falling to the floor. But the end result was utterly magical and really changed the way I thought about music.

Thanks for the link to the Yuja Wang, Caliban, I do love this kind of approach to the work too, it was just good to hear it approached differently.

Hello Daniel! Further welcomes - let me know if you prefer to .

Here is a much more relaxed Peter Serkin with his dad in Schubert - lovely stuff

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=wlD9haP7g0g&feature=endscreen

[ardcarp]

There is much annoyance expressed on The Forum from time to time about excessive body-language from some performers. Whilst I agree that weird facial expressions are a bit off-putting, I'd like to put in a plea for body-language, especially on the part of soloists whether they be pianists, fiddlers, clarinettists or whatever. It makes it very much easier for conductors and orchestral players to divine the soloist's intentions; and sometimes a conductor can 'keep out of the way' and not try to micro-manage every nuance IF the soloist is weaving about a bit.

Having thought about the Hough Rach, his brilliant playing and obvious feeling for how he wanted things to go was a bit bottled up inside. Maybe a bit less sang froid and bit more physical emoting would have served him better.