Proms 2013 - the Verdict.

[BBMmk2]

Indeed it was Ferney! Here's two for you, matey! :)

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Indeed it was Ferney! Here's two for you, matey! :)

Don't mind if I do.

[BBMmk2]

Don't mind if I do.

[teamsaint]

I am heartened by your enthusiasm, but the fact remains that the Proms used to be a celebration of orchestral music with vocal and chamber thrown in for (very good) measure. The fact that other 'themes' feature these days raises in me not one scintilla of interest. On the contrary it has saddened me. There are good things, I have no doubt, but believing that the world's greatest music festival has been hijacked by so much from other areas of pop culture depresses me.

TWO nights based on a science fiction TV programme? Good grief!

I agree that things are a long way from perfect. And others would be much better judges of the decline than I would.

Two nights for Dr who is ludicrous.

[Tony Halstead]

I agree that things are a long way from perfect. And others would be much better judges of the decline than I would.

Two nights for Dr who is ludicrous.

Agreed!

[PhilipT]

I'm not quite so pessimistic as some others here. Henry Wood's original goal was: ".. to run nightly concerts to train the public in easy stages .. gradually raising the standard until I have created a public for classical and modern music." Quite so. Early Proms featured many songs that would not have been out of place in a Victorian music hall. Is it not possible that the standard was then raised so high that it left most of the public behind, tempted as they were by other cultural innovations?

The Doctor Who Proms, and their predecessors, do at least encourage people to go to a concert and listen to a live orchestra, while giving them something they can connect to. A few years ago we had, IMHO, an excellent innovation in the form of the "Nation's Favourite" Proms, featuring only the most popular of popular classics, and it was noticeable how many newcomers to promming they attracted (I can't comment on those who sat in the seats). If the Proms planners do indeed go down the route of an Archers Prom, an Eastenders Prom or whatever, then I'll join those despairing here; if they come up with more "bridge" concerts to attract waverers fully into the classical camp, then they will have my full support.

[LHC]

I’m not sure why the Dr Who prom has caused such ire this year. The first Dr Who proms were in 2008 and were simply a continuation of the annual TV-themed proms aimed at children and families, which have been a regular feature of the proms since 1998.

For most of that period, the childrens prom was linked to Blue Peter. In 2004 it was given twice for the first time, reflecting the high demand for tickets for these concerts. In 2008, the Blue Peter Prom was replaced with a Doctor Who Prom, an experiment that was repeated in 2010 and again this year. Last year these concerts featured Wallace and Gromit.

The main change this year is that the first concert was given an evening slot at the beginning of the season. In previous years the concerts have been matinees. Perhaps that kept them below the radar of the complainers.

Although the TV broadcast concentrated on music written for Dr Who, the concert itself featured a number of other classical pieces.

The idea of a concert aimed at children and families seems a good one to me and is an excellent way of introducing children to live orchestral music. Linking it to one of the most popular childrens TV programmes also seems a good way of getting a lot of children involved. Mind you, my first ever concert at the age of 8 was Bach’s Mass in B minor at the Festival Hall conducted by Giulini, so what do I know.

[Nick Armstrong]

I am heartened by your enthusiasm, but the fact remains that the Proms used to be a celebration of orchestral music with vocal and chamber thrown in for (very good) measure. The fact that other 'themes' feature these days raises in me not one scintilla of interest. On the contrary it has saddened me. There are good things, I have no doubt, but believing that the world's greatest music festival has been hijacked by so much from other areas of pop culture depresses me.

TWO nights based on a science fiction TV programme? Good grief!

I'm instinctively in sympathy, slava ... and also with teamsaint's eloquent comment about the positives... which (and it's unusual for me to get statistical) seem borne out by the numbers.

You mentioned the 60s. Looking at 1969, there were 52 Proms.

(And I agree, some humdingers: clicking at random I found this dream-worthy evening:

Tuesday 9 September 1969
7.30pm
Royal Albert Hall
Martinu: Symphony No. 6 'Fantaisies symphoniques', H 343 Proms premiere
Gustav Mahler: Symphony No. 5 in C sharp minor
Czech Philharmonic Orchestra
Václav Neumann conductor

)


But in 2013 there were 75 Proms (not counting the Chamber proms). I count over 60 'standard' orchestral or other classical (e.g. late night instrumental or choral 'classical') Proms.

So the "celebration of orchestral music with vocal and chamber thrown in for (very good) measure" is still there, if anything in greater measure - it's just acquired some accretions of different kinds.

Like you, I'm not remotely interested in the latter; but like teamsaint I still draw enthusiasm from the core of the festival....

[french frank]

Following the culture secretary's speech about the BBC yesterday, Tony Hall was interviewed to express upbeat confidence in the future, mentioning the 'fantastic' programmes that the BBC still produces. I was a bit disconcerted that the first one he mentioned as an example was the LNotP. I would personally prefer that not to be given as the highlight of the season.

[salymap]

I think it would be a good idea to have more shortish orchestral pieces feauring members of the orchestra as soloists.

Sir Henry often mentions pieces like 'Lucy Long' for bassoon and orchestra, I think. No expensive soloists- Perhaps pieces for various wind and brass with orchestra.

Some lesser know pieces and a chance to decide which instrument you might wish to study.

A Saturday feature perhaps.

[cloughie]

Overall I think it was a pretty good season. I enjoyed the British music - Britten (the orchestral rather than vocal stuff) , Bantock, Tippett, less familiar Holst and some of the new works were surprisingly enjoyable. I enjoyed the Tchaikovsky Symphonies from a variety of conductors and orchestras. I was underwhelmed by the performances of two of my favourite symphonies - Manfred and the Rach 2 - was it incompatibility with Italian Orchestras? I thought Joyce DiDonato's crossover items on the last night were dreadful - why do supposedly top flight singers do it? I think she did more scooping that a top ice-cream seller! I did not hear any of the full operas but I was disappointed with many of the vocal contributions, an exception being the Verdi and Onegin in the Nelsons concert - a strangely put together concert but each ingredient good including a good Dvorak 8.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I’m not sure why the Dr Who prom has caused such ire this year. The first Dr Who proms were in 2008 and were simply a continuation of the annual TV-themed proms aimed at children and families, which have been a regular feature of the proms since 1998.

Good points, LHC - I have called the DW Proms a "poorly timed missed opportunity" (or such like) because the concerts were dated before the schools Summer Holidays, thus restricting the number of families who could attend to those living near London. A fortnight later - and timed for an afternoon event (possibly with a repeat in the evening as they were so popular) would have been more "family friendly". "Missed opportunity" because there is so much more Music used in the series than Mr Gould's: in this 50th anniversary year, some of the work produced at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (by Tristram Cary, Dudley Simpson, Carey Blyton and others - Delia Derbyshire's original arrangement of Grainer's theme tune not excepted) could have been included. And two full evenings taken up by this one repeated event isn't justified.

The family concerts have my full support, but this particular event could have been a lot better, IMO.

[BBMmk2]

Good points, LHC - I have called the DW Proms a "poorly timed missed opportunity" (or such like) because the concerts were dated before the schools Summer Holidays, thus restricting the number of families who could attend to those living near London. A fortnight later - and timed for an afternoon event (possibly with a repeat in the evening as they were so popular) would have been more "family friendly". "Missed opportunity" because there is so much more Music used in the series than Mr Gould's: in this 50th anniversary year, some of the work produced at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (by Tristram Cary, Dudley Simpson, Carey Blyton and others - Delia Derbyshire's original arrangement of Grainer's theme tune not excepted) could have been included. And two full evenings taken up by this one repeated event isn't justified.

The family concerts have my full support, but this particular event could have been a lot better, IMO.

Quite so, Ferney, I couldn't have put it better myself. Points raised were exactly what I have been thinking to. Thank you.

[edashtav]

Good points, LHC - I have called the DW Proms a "poorly timed missed opportunity" (or such like) because the concerts were dated before the schools Summer Holidays, thus restricting the number of families who could attend to those living near London. A fortnight later - and timed for an afternoon event (possibly with a repeat in the evening as they were so popular) would have been more "family friendly". "Missed opportunity" because there is so much more Music used in the series than Mr Gould's: in this 50th anniversary year, some of the work produced at the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (by Tristram Cary, Dudley Simpson, Carey Blyton and others - Delia Derbyshire's original arrangement of Grainer's theme tune not excepted) could have been included. And two full evenings taken up by this one repeated event isn't justified.

The family concerts have my full support, but this particular event could have been a lot better, IMO.

You have my complete support, ferney.

[french frank]

And two full evenings taken up by this one repeated event isn't justified.

They make two sell-out concerts. I imagine that's the reason.