Beethoven 7 - Oh that dreadful applause between movements!

[Sir Velo]

Elgar would have been pretty peed off if they'd clapped between the 2nd and 3rd movts of Sym 1

I'd have thought so too, but I defer to Bryn's superior knowledge (see post #18)! It's also a prevarication to suggest that all musicians like all applause whenever it bursts out. One only has to look at Barenboim's technique at holding back the bravi to see that most conductors have a marked distaste for premature ejaculation.

[jean]

I wrote a symphony last year and was most relieved when after the first movement a sizeable portion of the audience clapped .......

Perhaps they just hoped it was the end...

[Barbirollians]

I think salymap has a good point - in my experience it does not appear to happen anywhere but the Proms and if the performers dislike it and the little group who do it deliberately know it distresses others then it is surely just selfish posing.

[cloughie]

...plenty of inter-movemnet applause which didn't seem wrong to me , even in Mahler 3.


I wrote a symphony last year and was most relieved when after the first movement a sizeable portion of the audience clapped .......

There has been the practice in Mahler Symphonies and I think occasionally in Beethoven 9 when the soloist(s) have been introduced after the first or second movement accompanied by applause - not personally keen on this...

Has the thought occurred to you that your audience clapped after the first movement thinking the work had ended, but then i'm sure your audience were more knowledgeable than that!

Just seen jean's message ...

[MrGongGong]

I think salymap has a good point - in my experience it does not appear to happen anywhere but the Proms and if the performers dislike it and the little group who do it deliberately know it distresses others then it is surely just selfish posing.

Applause happens in lots of places .............

(semi skimmed or full fat Jean ? )

i'm sure your audience were more knowledgeable than that!

There is a delicate path to tread IMV
Sometimes the idea of an audience being "knowledgeable" is a wonderful thing........... and I've experienced many musics where I knew nothing prior to the event
BUT
the Proms in particular seem to bring out a different type of "knowledgeable" audience , the folk who do the "heave ho" routine when the piano lid goes up etc ..... which gives a message to the rest of the audience that somehow the whole thing is owned by these "music lovers" ...... which it isn't and i'm sure Mozart, Brahms and Mahler will be able to survive it !

[umslopogaas]

"Citroen Presse"

Karafan, he stole that from a Brockbank cartoon of a harassed Light Fifteen being borne down upon from the rear by a huge vintage Bentley. The caption is "Citron Presse" (acute accent on the last e).

[amateur51]

I wonder if the Hosts/french frank could turn this thread into a sticky so that we can put it away and then revive it next year around this time.

As Count Arthur Strong sang only recently on his TV show .... "Round. Like a circle in a spiral. Like a wheel within a wheel ...."

[salymap]

Applause happens in lots of places .............

(semi skimmed or full fat Jean ? )



There is a delicate path to tread IMV
Sometimes the idea of an audience being "knowledgeable" is a wonderful thing........... and I've experienced many musics where I knew nothing prior to the event
BUT
the Proms in particular seem to bring out a different type of "knowledgeable" audience , the folk who do the "heave ho" routine when the piano lid goes up etc ..... which gives a message to the rest of the audience that somehow the whole thing is owned by these "music lovers" ...... which it isn't and i'm sure Mozart, Brahms and Mahler will be able to survive it !

The man who was at the receiving end of the "heave ho" years ago was Edgar Mais, who happened tobe a neighbour of mine.

He was a nice but bur rather grumpy man, and his impression of the unruly section of the audience would be banned by the management here.

But still, as we sometimes travelled home on the train together he had some wonderful stories of many years as the BBCSO platform manager. HAPPY DAYS.

[johnb]

I am all in favour if there is spontaneous, enthusiastic applause at the end of a movement but, at the proms, the inter-movement clapping is usually tepid, fairly perfunctory and seems pointless (and mildly irritating).

[french frank]

I think there is more than a little element of this.........and some rather curious ideas

But that's you presuming the reasons why people don't like the applause, hence they are 'snobs'.

The problem is precisely that people are different in their reactions and the 'quiet' people are bound to lose out to the 'noisy' people. Every time. If they whinge, perhaps that's why?

[MrGongGong]

But that's you presuming the reasons why people don't like the applause, hence they are 'snobs'.

The problem is precisely that people are different in their reactions and the 'quiet' people are bound to lose out to the 'noisy' people. Every time. If they whinge, perhaps that's why?

Not at all
I think I wasn't clear (and wrote a reply that was deleted by mistake )

Some people have a proprietorial attitude to music , which doesn't make them 'snobs' but does alienate
some music is fragile and needs very careful attention

BUT

If BCMG can run a family concert with The King of Denmark as one of the pieces without it being disrupted then it's not beyond the bounds of possibility for the Proms to have a wee think about semiotics and to engineer the concert experience so that (if it's required) there isn't inter movement applause......... If it's possible to do this with 140 ten year olds in a hot barn (which I have experienced recently) and where they spent 40 minutes listening to intricate and quiet music then it's a breeze at the RAH

Rather than having more "rules" which just piss people off why not use the techniques that many other performing arts use ? (the folk who did the Stockhausen last year in Brum would be able to pull it off i'm sure)

[french frank]

Not at all
I think I wasn't clear (and wrote a reply that was deleted by mistake )

(Not deleted by me, I hasten ...) Okay, I can accept that. Except I'm not sure that people are 'proprietorial' about the music itself; it's the personal relationship they have with it. And it's upsetting to them when that's disrupted, their enjoyment.

Re children: returning to the Doctor Who Prom - and really I don't like to harp on this too much - I said I listened to the first 35 minutes. My impression was of a lot speech (to an 'in' audience), audience engagement and general noisy enjoyment. What it didn't seem to have any connection with was a Prom (2 mins of the Carmen Habanera in that 35 mins).

I'd like to think it was possible to 'engineer the concert experience' to good effect without the conductor having 'Don't applaud until I turn round' pinned on his back.

[french frank]

And back to the OP, when you get applause between every movement of Beethoven 7, that's beginning to sound more like ritual than enthusiasm.

[MrGongGong]

I'd like to think it was possible to 'engineer the concert experience' to good effect without the conductor having 'Don't applaud until I turn round' pinned on his back.

I have seen this many times ........... it's one of the things I often work at with young players, NOT saying "that's the end" with your body while the music still plays.........and i'm sure we have all experienced skilled conductors who can "hold" a moment (or even a minute or more) of total silence.

[Vile Consort]

It annoys me in general because nobody did it when I started going to concerts and I got used to that being comme il faut. In my case it's age rather than snobbery that is responsible for my attitude. And I am afraid I can't do much about my age. Sorry.