Traffic disruption and the Proms

[amateur51]

Have a look at this case study of pavement cycling. It has no particular angle, and is non judgemental; but it might just be an eye opener for you.

Well said Fred I'm amazed to find a cyclist coming towards me on a narrow pavement locally at dusk or later without lights on. In fact the absence of proper lighting on bikes astonishes me - there are so many now with these flashing white-light jobs on the front and red-light flashers on the back. What do cyclists think about constant v intermittent light beams?

[mangerton]

Have a look at this case study of pavement cycling. It has no particular angle, and is non judgemental; but it might just be an eye opener for you.

Yes, very interesting. As the writer says, it is primarily about disabilities. I left a small shop situated on a hill with a narrow pavement the other day just behind a lady in her 80s. She was almost knocked down by a cyclist moving at speed. She got a fright. Hardly surprising. That is my concern - not children riding with their parents in pedestrian precincts.

You say:

Truly I think we have forgotten how to act civilly towards each other in the UK.

How true. This is amply borne out by Amsy:

Well said Fred I'm amazed to find a cyclist coming towards me on a narrow pavement locally at dusk or later without lights on. In fact the absence of proper lighting on bikes astonishes me - there are so many now with these flashing white-light jobs on the front and red-light flashers on the back. What do cyclists think about constant v intermittent light beams?

It's all about rights today. Nothing about responsibilities. And like it or not, riding on pavements is illegal. The fact that the police - certainly here and probably elsewhere - are too idle to do anything about it doesn't alter that. Sooner or later an elderly or blind or deaf person will be knocked down and then the fat will be in the fire.

[Nick Armstrong]

everyone is more interested in presenting a bella figura than in rushing anywhere.

Very much my own philosophy of cycling... Well, the 'not rushing' part anyway

[Serial_Apologist]

It's all about rights today. Nothing about responsibilities.

Rights had and in some instances still have to be fought for and defended. The problem is and never was rights, but absence of a socio-political framework in which responsibilities can be exercised beyond manners but above all duties sustaining those in unaccountable power - otherwise one ends up assuming a reactionary judgmentalism on all sorts of attitudes and behaviours.

[Dave2002]

There's no problem for cyclists here. They cycle on the pavement, much to the consternation of pedestrians - especially the elderly and those with pushchairs.

Ah, but Dundee is special. Pedestrians present special hazards for other road users, as they so frequently walk out into the road without looking. One needs different driving skills in that town to avoid accidents. I'm not quite sure where cyclists fit in the mix though.

[Bryn]

Ah, but Dundee is special. Pedestrians present special hazards for other road users, as they so frequently walk out into the road without looking. One needs different driving skills in that town to avoid accidents. I'm not quite sure where cyclists fit in the mix though.

Are Dundee and Eton twinned?

[Flosshilde]

It's not a lot of fun being passed by HGVs and white van man with a few inches to spare while trying to avoid potholes.

Or, indeed, bus drivers, & not to mention the broken glass in the gutters.

Neither is it much fun having to hang a good distance behind cyclists traveling at less than 20 mph, and who insist on using the main carriageway when there is a well maintained dedicated or cycle/pedestrian shared path directly alongside.

Where are all these 'well maintained dedicated or cycle/pedestrian shared paths' alongside the roads? When I cycled regularly (in London) it was the road or nothing.

[Flosshilde]

There's no problem for cyclists here. They cycle on the pavement, much to the consternation of pedestrians - especially the elderly and those with pushchairs.

I'm not sure who would come off worse in a collision - the person in the picture or the cyclist

http://www.thecourier.co.uk/polopoly_fs/1.105400.1371820344!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620/image.jpg

(I can't guarantee that she is from Dundee, but the picture did appear in the Courier)

[Sir Velo]

Yes, very interesting. As the writer says, it is primarily about disabilities. I left a small shop situated on a hill with a narrow pavement the other day just behind a lady in her 80s. She was almost knocked down by a cyclist moving at speed. She got a fright. Hardly surprising. That is my concern - not children riding with their parents in pedestrian precincts.

You say:



How true. This is amply borne out by Amsy:



It's all about rights today. Nothing about responsibilities. And like it or not, riding on pavements is illegal. The fact that the police - certainly here and probably elsewhere - are too idle to do anything about it doesn't alter that. Sooner or later an elderly or blind or deaf person will be knocked down and then the fat will be in the fire.

Mangerton, I'm not an apologist for poor cycling. Neither am I a "pavement cyclist". In fact I'm a motorist, cyclist and pedestrian at various times, so I have an appreciation of the perception each class of road user has of the others. Certainly it is unpleasant, as a pedestrian, when a cyclist comes whizzing past on a pavement. In fact, I had to remonstrate with a cyclist who "belled me" to get out of her way on a pavement! However, for every cyclist that is not on the roads that is a vehicle less, and is thereby reducing congestion. Think about it. If we provided real "Dutch style" infrastructure we could take off thousands, nay millions of journeys which are currently made by car (ie 80% of all journeys under 5 miles are made by car!).

So we need to consider that we have constructed a road environment which is extremely unpleasant, not to say downright dangerous, for all users other than motorists That can't be right. I am a fast and experienced road cyclist. I ride a good three feet from the kerb to assert my presence, and yet...And yet, I still get passed by drivers with nary a few inches to spare. Ive had HGVs cut in on me before finishing their manoeuvres, forcing a hurried application of brakes, and even an excursion onto the verge in one instance. I've had drivers rev their engines even when I've been doing the speed limit and/or keeping pace with the vehicle ahead. Oh, and I don't undertake, although if a motorist overtakes me in the last few feet before a junction I will have no compunction in going back round them to retake my position!

Ams mentions lights. The reason why so many cyclists (including myself) go for the "Christmas Tree" look is that the flashing LEDs grab your attention. A common complaint of motorists after a "collision" is that the cyclist "came out of nowhere" like some form of supernatural manifestation. A constant beam (unless extremely strong) has been proven to be ignored by many motorists.

[Nick Armstrong]

I agree with every word of your #54, Sir Velo, and do likewise in each respect on my daily cycle ride to and from work.

[jean]

So do I - except for this bit:

...I am a fast and experienced road cyclist...

Which makes the rest even more important.

[Bryn]

Not much fun for large vehicle drivers having some cyclists stupidly undertaking them at junctions. If there is no designated cycle lane in such situations, I now try to make sure I leave insufficient room for such dangerous riding. Re. buses, it would really help in terms of safety if more cyclists familiarized themselves with, and observed, the Highway Code, with particular attention being applied to the current rules 221 and 223.

https://www.gov.uk/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225/other-vehicles-219-to-225

When it comes down to it, most of the Highway Code is simply common sense. Drivers of Large vehicles must, of course, pay particular attention to rules 211 to 213.

[Sir Velo]

So do I - except for this bit:


Which makes the rest even more important.

Quite. I should add that there are times when I just want to potter about, or not arrive all dishevelled and sweaty. Sadly, some motorists seem to think that you should cycle in the gutter unless you are prepared to ride around like Bradley Wiggins all day!

[Bryn]

Potterers are not much of a problem in my experience (except when cycling two abreast and having a chat). Their relatively low speed means the time spent overtaking them is comparatively short. It's the Bradley Wiggins wannabes that present more of a hazzard. There again, some cyclists can be as much road hogs as some car drivers.

[Flosshilde]

Not much fun for large vehicle drivers having some cyclists stupidly undertaking them at junctions. If there is no designated cycle lane in such situations, I now try to make sure I leave insufficient room for such dangerous riding. Re. buses, it would really help in terms of safety if more cyclists familiarized themselves with, and observed, the Highway Code, with particular attention being applied to the current rules 221 and 223.

https://www.gov.uk/road-users-requiring-extra-care-204-to-225/other-vehicles-219-to-225

When it comes down to it, most of the Highway Code is simply common sense. Drivers of Large vehicles must, of course, pay particular attention to rules 211 to 213.

The simple fact is that motor vehicles - even quite small ones - can do far more damage to a cyclist than the cyclist can do to the motor vehicle or its driver. Drivers need to keep this in mind and operate their vehicle in a way that doesn't put other road users at risk - far too many don't. And I include bus drivers in this - I'm afraid Bryn, your own example not withstanding, that bus drivers are no angels. (In Glasgow I believe that elderly people are far more at risk of injury from poor driving while travelling in the bus than they are from cyclists while walking on the pavement. Bus drivers seem to be having a competition to see how many people - not just elderly - they can get on the floor of their bus)