TV Proms

[LHC]

In previous years the televised proms were spread across BBC4 and BBC2, with the BBC2 proms being shown in HD (my recollection is that there were about 10 of these last year, although they did concentrate on more popular repertoire).

This year, with the exception of the first and last night there are no complete proms relays on BBC2. Instead we are being promised a weekly 'highlights' show to be introduced by Katie Derham. There are no details yet as to what will be shown (hopefully the highlights will at least be complete pieces and not just individual movements or excerpts from longer pieces), but at least these programmes will be in HD.

Having said that, reducing the representation of the proms on the main BBC channels to 'highlights' does rather support Brian Sewell's argument that the BBC is contemptuous of its audience's intellectual capacity.

[teamsaint]

I guess the main "problem" for them televising anything live is what to do in the interval

and they wouldn't be able to do a live 7pm start on BBC4 because of the news (is that right ?)

They manage in the footy, which has a 15 minute break these days, and the games certainly don't get moved, delayed or whatever for the news !!

All that Glisters......

[french frank]

Having said that, reducing the representation of the proms on the main BBC channels to 'highlights' does rather support Brian Sewell's argument that the BBC is contemptuous of its audience's intellectual capacity.

Indeed. I have quoted back at the Trust (and pointed out to the 'new' DG) (I know, I'm mad ) that in the Trust review of Radio 3 they wrote:

"We believe that it is important that Radio 3 continues to attempt to build appreciation of music and culture amongst audiences with little classical music knowledge [Ed: - i.e. we agree with the managers' proposals]. Radio 3’s ambition to increase accessibility and encourage lighter listeners will go some way towards achieving this. However, other services within the BBC portfolio should also play a role in meeting this requirement, and are potentially better placed to do so, given their size, scale and broader audience."

What are those services if not, principally, BBC TWO - which it seems has actually cut its coverage of full concerts?

Great point about the footie, TS!

[mercia]

the whole schedule can apparently be re-arranged for sport, that's always been the case

[gurnemanz]

the whole schedule can apparently be re-arranged for sport, that's always been the case

I suppose they might argue that sport is different because it has a result and knowing it in advance would spoil the suspense, but I wouldn't find that totally convincing.

Thanks to Mercia for the research on Proms broadcasts, which, like others, I find rather shocking. I greatly regret that they can't bring themselves to show concerts genuinely live (I would love to know what Frank's self-deleted comment was above). They eventually climbed down over the live evening concert on R3. I think they love to be able to edit and drip feed content to the viewers - a kind of controlfreakery whereby Auntie knows best. Even with sport the BBC sometimes likes to play around with time-lag broadcasting of what you might assume is genuinely live. You can sometimes notice this with snooker or athletics. If you switch to Eurosport you can often witness the same event being transmitted as it happens, with an on-screen text next to their logo which clearly states "live". The Beeb never seems to do this.

[french frank]

I think they love to be able to edit and drip feed content to the viewers - a kind of controlfreakery whereby Auntie knows best.

That's how it seems. I think my comment (I forget now ) might have been connected with Msg #18: the Trust gives its opinion and management does the opposite.

This is an example of the BBC's own energetic efforts to make classical music seem 'less elitist' to the general public:

[mercia]

I wanted to edit this but it seems to be too old, so I have quoted and edited

rfb = recorded for broadcast

Prom 1 - (12 July) - broadcast BBC2 - "later this evening"
Prom 2 - (13 July) - rfb on BBC1 - Doctor Who
Prom 3 - (14 July) - rfb on BBC1 - Doctor Who (again ?)
Prom 4 - (14 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 21 July - (Les Siecles)
Prom 5 - (15 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 18 July - (Mahler 5 only) - (Bamberg SO)
Prom 6 - (16 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 19 July - (BBC Philharmonic)
Prom 8 - (17 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 28 July - (BBC SO)
Prom 10 - (19 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 15 August - (Pappano)
Prom 12 - (20 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 25 July - (Viva Verdi)
Prom 13 - (21 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 26 July - (NYO USA)
Prom 17 - (25 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 2 August - (BBC Philharmonic)
Prom 19 - (27 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 1 September - (Tristan & Isolde)
Prom 21 - (29 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 4 August - (BBC NOW)
Prom 23 - (30 July) - rfb - BBC4 - 1 August - (Mahler Chamber Orchestra)
Prom 28 - (3 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 9 August - (BBC SSO)
Prom 33 - (8 August) - same day delayed broadcast 7:30pm - (Bavarian RSO)
Prom 34 - (8 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 23 August - (Nigel Kennedy - 4 Seasons)
Prom 36 - (9 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 16 August - (JEG - Bach)
Prom 37 - (10 August) - rfb - BBC3 - 10 August - (Urban Classic - same day but delayed ?)
Prom 38 - (11 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 6 September - (NYOGB including Beethoven 9)
Prom 51 - (20 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 25 August - (LSO)
Prom 53 - (22 August) - same day delayed broadcast 7:30pm - (Rotterdam Philharmonic)
Prom 56 - (24 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 29 August - (Mahler Jugendorchester)
Prom 59 - (26 August) - rfb - BBC4 - 30 August - (Hollywood - Wilson)
Prom 65 - (31 August) - rfb - BBC4 - date TBC - (Film music - Lockhart)
Prom 67 - (1 September) - rfb - BBC4 - date TBC - (Orchestre de Paris)
Prom 72 - (5 September) - same day delayed broadcast 7:30pm - (Orchestra di Milano)
Prom 75 - (7 September) - (last night) - live BBC2 then BBC1

in order of original prom whereas this link more sensibly puts them in date order of TV broadcast

http://www.bbc.co.uk/proms/whats-on/2013/categories/proms-on-tv

[Serial_Apologist]

I suppose they might argue that sport is different because it has a result and knowing it in advance would spoil the suspense, but I wouldn't find that totally convincing.

Nor I, were I to be new to the music to be performed.

[amateur51]

That's how it seems. I think my comment (I forget now ) might have been connected with Msg #18: the Trust gives its opinion and management does the opposite.

This is an example of the BBC's own energetic efforts to make classical music seem 'less elitist' to the general public:

Has Stephen Fry been signed up to do snooker commentary then now that 'Whispering' Ted Lowe has shuffled off this mortal coil?

[teamsaint]

The BBC has never adequately replaced Pot Black on black and white TV, in my opinion.

[amateur51]

The BBC has never adequately replaced Pot Black on black and white TV, in my opinion.

I knew I was getting bored one weekend visiting with my mother in North Wales when I found myself watching snooker on a black & white telly ... with a commentary in Welsh!

[teamsaint]

I knew I was getting bored one weekend visiting with my mother in North Wales when I found myself watching snooker on a black & white telly ... with a commentary in Welsh!

I was going to say they never improved on it, but I would have been wrong.

[mangerton]

The BBC has never adequately replaced Pot Black on black and white TV, in my opinion.

Certainly not. A great programme. I think it was Ted Lowe who said, "For those of you watching in black and white, the yellow ball is the one next to the green."

[LHC]

I see from next week's Radio Times that the season of Proms on BBC4 is getting off to a good start by omitting half of the programme. As the Radio Times puts it:

If you heard this Prom live on Radio 3 on Monday, you may be relieved or disappointed that BBC4 is omitting Helmut Lachenmann’s musique concrète piece – it sounds like someone bouncing on rusty bedsprings, thwacking at rats with a saw.

So only Mahler's 5th Symphony will be broadcast.

It seems that the BBC's cultural enclave is not immune to dumbing down.

[french frank]

I see from next week's Radio Times that the season of Proms on BBC4 is getting off to a good start by omitting half of the programme. As the Radio Times puts it:

If you heard this Prom live on Radio 3 on Monday, you may be relieved or disappointed that BBC4 is omitting Helmut Lachenmann’s musique concrète piece – it sounds like someone bouncing on rusty bedsprings, thwacking at rats with a saw.

So only Mahler's 5th Symphony will be broadcast.

It seems that the BBC's cultural enclave is not immune to dumbing down.

I'm totally confused - the Lachenmann UK premiere isn't on Radio 3 until next Monday http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b036v5h1 Who wrote that - a new music aficionado?