The actual Proms programme 12 July - 7 September

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But that suggests that the Proms Director is completely at the mercy of the performers, in this case the conductors. Was it like that under Glock or Drummond?

I think to a large extent he is - it's thirty years since Drummond and over forty since the glory days of Glock. Prom programmers have to cut their suits to match what visiting conductors have to offer. The only alternative in today's "market place" (I know, I know - but that's how it works, alas: the price tag politics begun thirty-odd years ago still inject the human spirit with its venom) is to stop the visiting orchestras and rely on the BBC's own orchestras and their conductors.

I don't disagree with the basic tenor of what you're saying, aeolie; to answer my own question earlier, I might have said to Runnicles "Look, Don; we've got a problem - we've six Wagner operas this year, and nothing by Verdi. Would you be terribly offended if we recorded your Tannhauser at the Edinburgh shindig and broadcast it at a later date?", given him a crate of Lagavulin and hoped he would still renew his contract with the BBCSSO when his current one runs out. I would then have approached Opera North and asked them if they were interested in performing their superb Otello at the Proms. I might also have had a similar conversation with Bychkov ("How about the Poulenc Double Piano Concerto with the in-laws?").

But, for all we know, RW did have such conversations and Runnicles, Bychkov etc all said "No. This is possibly my best chance on these works - I want them to represent me at the Proms." Does he call their bluff (after all, surely artists want to appear at the Proms?) - and if so, what if it isn't a bluff? How do you respond to the newspaper headlines "Bychkov quits his BBC post after just three months! 'They want me to do Constant Lambert instead of Tristan' wails international celebrity maestro [whom we've never mentioned before because we don't do Classical Music except when there's a scandal]"?

[aeolium]

The only alternative in today's "market place" (I know, I know - but that's how it works, alas: the price tag politics begun thirty-odd years ago still inject the human spirit with its venom) is to stop the visiting orchestras and rely on the BBC's own orchestras and their conductors.

If the result of that would be to allow greater control over what the programme actually contains - and if it allows for more inventive programming - then I think that would be a price worth paying. If what you are saying is true, that the main reason we have seven Wagner operas in a venue quite unsuited to them is the not-to-be-resisted insistence of the visiting conductors then things have got out of hand. I don't actually believe it, though. I think the main reason is RW's desire to programme them all and to make a headline splash. To me it fits with his composer-thon "quantity is all" approach, particularly where it comes to the big composers, that excess is the route to success.

[BBMmk2]

Babrirollians, on the Haydn thread,,mentioned that there is none of this composers music at the Proms this season? How can this be ? Why?

[amateur51]

And, Marin Alsop will be the first ever woman to conduct the Last Night.

Roger Wright said "He did not believe that having a female conductor would alter Last Night’s atmosphere of patriotic fervour. “It’s not just about the conductor, it’s about Nigel Kennedy and Joyce DiDonato. The Last Night is also about taking that audience further with 'The Building of the House', a lighter piece by Britten.”

Oh, Jolly Dee, it's all about Nige and Britten, not an historical occasion then with allowing a woman in?

He also said, in a TV interview I just caught the end of, about having a female conductor "Well, it's about working with what we have been given" <groan> <smite forehead> emoticon. Women, eh? Cannot conduct Kennedy for toffee ..... as for Britten ....

Strange responses, I agree Anna.

Let's try something a bit more upbeat ...

"Yes Marin Alsop was such a hit last year when she brought the São Paulo State Symphony over to the Proms, I thought we'd get her for the opening night this year to build on that excitement. She's thrilled and so am I!"

There now, that wasn't difficult was it?

[Charlie]

" ... If the result of that would be to allow greater control over what the programme actually contains - and if it allows for more inventive programming - then I think that would be a price worth paying. If what you are saying is true, that the main reason we have seven Wagner operas in a venue quite unsuited to them is the not-to-be-resisted insistence of the visiting conductors then things have got out of hand. I don't actually believe it, though. I think the main reason is RW's desire to programme them all and to make a headline splash. To me it fits with his composer-thon "quantity is all" approach, particularly where it comes to the big composers, that excess is the route to success."

I would dispute the idea that the Royal Albert Hall is unsuited and unsuitable for a performance of Wagner's Ring Cycle. The last one, spread over four years, was an unexpected triumph, rather more successful than the concurrent Royal Opera House (ROH) production. Why it should have worked so well in the Albert Hall is an interesting question. My partner reckons that you can sometimes dispense with the expensive stage sets completely, aeolium. All too often, they simply get in the way!

PS As for Roger Wright's desire to programme seven Wagner operas into a single Proms' season, well, it certainly is a headline splash! I suspect that RW did it because he could do it, because he happens to like Wagner, and, of course, because it happens to be Wagner's bicentenary.

Wagner 200

I am reminded that from a historical perspective, the Proms started with Beethoven and Wagner nights, where promenaders were treated to excerpts of Wagner's operas. This is an all-too-rare case of dumbing up, aeolium?

[amateur51]

I would dispute the idea that the Royal Albert Hall is unsuited and unsuitable for a performance of Wagner's Ring Cycle. The last one, spread over four years, was an unexpected triumph, rather more successful than the concurrent Royal Opera House (ROH) production. Why it should have worked so well in the Albert Hall is an interesting question. My partner reckons that you can dispense with the stage sets completely, aeolium. All too often, they simply get in the way!

I greatly enjoyed the ROH/Haitink Ring cycle at the RAH in the 1990s when the ROH had the builder in. No sets, little production, lights halfway up so you could follow the words, first time I truly understood from the performers what was going on.

Since then I've enjoyed Rings by ENO/Paul Daniels/Barbican and Opera North/Farnes/Leeds Town Hall (Siegfried this Summer) under similar circumstances and while I understand that some people enjoy the productions that you get in an opera house, this is now my favoured approach to The Ring

[amateur51]

Ah, stop yer whingin'! Five "bits of Bantock" (more than an hour's Music) and two by yer main man!

Meanwhile, some of us will have to have a certain composer's 70th birthday celebrations away from South Kensington!

Looking forward to the Lutoslawskis and the Feldman - and the Proms debut of Lachenmann!!! And the Midsummer Marriage. Best of all: the stuff from the Eton Choirbook coupled with Birtwistle.

And I love Barenboim's Wagner, too, so I'm quite happy.

A certain member in Derbyshire must be thrilled about the inclusion of Lachenmann too

[amateur51]

Well; it's held in London. But the Proms was never a "British Music" Festival .

and all the better for that, say I

[amateur51]

And a String Quartet by Maconchy and a premiere of a piece by RVW (orch Payne).

I saw APayne leaving Royal Academy of Music yesterday heading tubewards and looking rather chipper

[Resurrection Man]

Ticketing seems to have changed from last year as far as I can see. Last year you could get a weekend Prom pass. This year apart from the Opening Weeekend there are no weekend prom passes which is a great pity. You also used to be able to get half-season Prom passes (may have happened already in previous years but I don't recall). This year it's Whole Season or nothing.

[Suffolkcoastal]

PS As for Roger Wright's desire to programme seven Wagner operas into a single Proms' season, well, it certainly is a headline splash! I suspect that RW did it because he could do it, because he happens to like Wagner, and, of course, because it happens to be Wagner's bicentenary.

Then why didn't he also do the same for Verdi??? I don't honestly think its the Conductors & Orchestral Managers that make that much of the running in choosing the programmes. I have a strong gut feeling that its RW that does the vast majority of that, the man loves creating headlines and makes sure he gets what he wants, and I don't think at the moment anyone dares stand up to him. Anyway it'll be interesting to see how next year pans out with only R Strauss and Panufnik with major anniversaries, 7 Strauss operas?

[Serial_Apologist]

I think the main reason is RW's desire to programme them all and to make a headline splash. To me it fits with his composer-thon "quantity is all" approach, particularly where it comes to the big composers, that excess is the route to success.

Then we have a man in charge who is seriously deluded.

[Serial_Apologist]

I would dispute the idea that the Royal Albert Hall is unsuited and unsuitable for a performance of Wagner's Ring Cycle. The last one, spread over four years, was an unexpected triumph

Ahem.....

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

D'you know, ferney, I've never heard that!

AFAIK, not broadcast since the 1980s!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb0ETXrS-Kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ISsSXqT04

[Serial_Apologist]

AFAIK, not broadcast since the 1980s!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb0ETXrS-Kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99ISsSXqT04

Terrific! Wow! Thanks, ferney.