The actual Proms programme 12 July - 7 September

[Flosshilde]

Hardly; it's price band C, highest price £57. The bands go up to G - highest price £95

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

To achieve balance is pointless

Why?

to engage with the audience is everything.

Which audience?

[Suffolkcoastal]

You are reading the wrong thread - see the Proms advance thread !

I was getting confused between the two threads! Anyway no more Hindemith supporters though, I think I need Roehre's support for the absence of Hartmann, and though I'm no great fan of Poulenc, his virtual absence is very surprising. It is good to see two pieces of Panufnik (will mean he at least gets in to double figures on pieces played on R3 after 4 and half years). I hope for more next year in his centenary. I will try and support the Glazunov, though the choice of the 2nd Piano Concerto isn't ideal, though I doubt I'll get a ticket for that Prom.

Personally I would have programmed two operas each of Wagner, Verdi & Britten, plus an old fashioned Wagner night and a similar Verdi night, and various bits of Britten elsewhere. I certainly would have had at least 4 pieces of Hindemith and Poulenc scattered through the programmes and a couple of pieces of Hartmann. I was looking forward to more Manze RVW, I wonder why it didn't happen, (perhaps because I praised it last year its put the mockers on it!). The Bantock should have been the Hebridean Symphony which really is a good work and is also a 100 years old.

[Thropplenoggin]

Personally I would have programmed two operas each of Wagner, Verdi & Britten, plus an old fashioned Wagner night and a similar Verdi night, and various bits of Britten elsewhere. I certainly would have had at least 4 pieces of Hindemith and Poulenc scattered through the programmes and a couple of pieces of Hartmann. I was looking forward to more Manze RVW, I wonder why it didn't happen, (perhaps because I praised it last year its put the mockers on it!). The Bantock should have been the Hebridean Symphony which really is a good work and is also a 100 years old.

A nice idea for a thread that, everyone offering up a night/several nights/week of Prom concerts.

[Charlie]

Why?

Absolute balance is ultimately unachievable, because what can be performed is changing all the time!

Which audience?

Promenaders, concert goers, listeners and viewers!

[Flosshilde]

So reckon it's just going to be my namesake....Mahler 2.

Don't wear them out - they're in Edinburgh on the 12th.

Thought I'd better check on ticket availability at Edinburgh - & discovered that there were only 75 seats available, in the balcony! I'm going to have to unscrew my legs again

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Absolute balance is ultimately unachievable, because what can be performed is changing all the time!

Who said anything about "absolutes"? And "balance" can be achieved within an endlessly mutating repertoire.

Promenaders, concert goers, listeners and viewers!

Which "Promenaders, concertgoers and viewers"?

[Andrew Slater]

Anyway no more Hindemith supporters .

There's one here: surely they could have squeezed some Hindemith in somewhere. For instance, does the 'Lark' really need another outing on the last night? (I say that as a paid-up member of the RVW Society.) Something like the Nobilissima Visione suite could have been played in its place (and a soloist's fee could have been saved into the bargain).

I know that Hindemith is apparently regarded as a box office disaster: I once heard a chamber orchestra director say that whenever they programme Hindemith, they don't publicise it out of fear that audience numbers will suffer! Perhaps there'll be some Hindemith encores? The Three Choirs Festival is doing Das Marienleben in Gloucester on 31st July.

Btw - just noticed Hindemith's Piano Sonata No. 3 is on TTN tonight at 0120.

[seabright]

I would not call £5 expensive.

I wonder if anyone here went to the sensational Proms Premiere of Mahler 2 under Stokowski in 1963 and paid the princely sum of 3 shillings and sixpence to do so ? :) ... Here's a reminder of the closing moments, with Janet Baker at her superb best ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gv1HMlTU0R0

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Which "Promenaders, concertgoers and viewers"?

This is my point. There is no single "audience". There are audiences, each with different passions and needs from the Proms - to prepare an entire season, the programme director should seek to encompass as many different kinds of Musics as s/he can - and if any part of the repertoires is left out, this should be addressed in the next Season (or the one after). We have seen from some of the comments on the two Threads devoted to the Proms that there is no single consensus about what would satisfy everybody. Therefore, the programme should attempt to balance the different requirements from the different audiences in the hope that those of us who rejoice that Stockhausen's Music is being featured this year might also give George Lloyd's Requiem a hearing, and that the mainstream orchestral repertoire from the 18th and 19th Centuries is not emphasized to the point where Jazz, Mediaeval Isorhythmic motets, Ghanaaian drumming, the Great American Songbook, all-night Ragas, the symphonies of William Boyce (or Robert Simpson) or a weekend-long tribute to the late Elliott Carter are neglected.

Balance - mixing the familiar, the popular and the unexpected and giving the best performances possible to the greatest number of people. That's why Newman, Wood and Cathcart started them in the first place.

[Suffolkcoastal]

Thanks Andrew I'm glad I'm not alone. The attitude to Hindemith you described was also passed on to me when I was younger, and I was told that Hindemith wasn't worth bothering about, he was just dry, dull and academic. Gladly as always I came to make my own mind up about Hindemith and though not everything he wrote is of interest, there are quite a fair number of works that I come to love and admire greatly. Snubbing a composer of Hindemith's importance, at a great musical festival in one of his anniversary years I'm afraid reflects very poorly on the Director and denies a wide audience the chance to hear his music live and judge for themselves, isn't that what the Proms really are all about? Sadly personal preferences, the fascination with CFM Hall of Fame pieces and an attempt to be 'cool and trendy' are starting to eat into this once great Festival.

[aeolium]

The Three Choirs Festival is doing Das Marienleben in Gloucester on 31st July.

Do you know this work, Andrew? I was quite interested in going to the concert featuring it.

I agree about Hindemith, and also the lack of Poulenc - both anniversary composers that could really benefit from featuring at the Proms. And the number of Wagner operas is really excessive, in a year which will in any case feature other Ring cycles (the Met one is currently being broadcast on R3 over several weeks) as well as the principal operas.

[Andrew Slater]

Do you know this work, Andrew? I was quite interested in going to the concert featuring it.

No, I don't but have listened to snippets on the Classical Shop website. From what I've heard, it's worth investigating further. As I'll be in Gloucester that day I hope to attend. I believe that the songs will be sung in English, which will help a non-linguist such as me!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

And the number of Wagner operas is really excessive, in a year which will in any case feature other Ring cycles (the Met one is currently being broadcast on R3 over several weeks) as well as the principal operas.

So; you get Daniel Barenboim on the 'phone and he says "Hey, Rodgy, baby; I'm doing a Ring Cycle next year round about the time of the Proms. Waddya reckon we include it for the first time ever in the history of the Proms? Are you in?"

You really want RW to reply "Thanks, but no thanks, Danny boy. We're putting on Les Mammelles du Tiresias"?

[Petrushka]

So; you get Daniel Barenboim on the 'phone and he says "Hey, Rodgy, baby; I'm doing a Ring Cycle next year round about the time of the Proms. Waddya reckon we include it for the first time ever in the history of the Proms? Are you in?"

You really want RW to reply "Thanks, but no thanks, Danny boy. We're putting on Les Mammelles du Tiresias"?