2012 - The Song is Over...

[MrGongGong]

I think some people miss the point about going to hear music "LIVE"
a large part of the experience is to do with being in the company of other people with their coughs , heavy breathing, snoring and all the rest
I used to get very annoyed at this
but if I really wanted to hear the music in silence (and by "music" i mean just the sounds" ) then I would either listen alone or seek out an occasion where this is possible..........

far too many "Classical music lovers" seem to think that their way of listening is the only one and that (and this is most evident at the Proms) we should try to make everyone behave like them as they are the REAL "music lovers".............

these things are NOT fixed, they change with time (as with the modern habit of playing whole symphonies and not clapping between movements).......

some people are intensely irritating in concerts but one has to be philosophical about it as that's the nature of the live experience

[Serial_Apologist]

I think some people miss the point about going to hear music "LIVE"
a large part of the experience is to do with being in the company of other people with their coughs , heavy breathing, snoring and all the rest
I used to get very annoyed at this
but if I really wanted to hear the music in silence (and by "music" i mean just the sounds" ) then I would either listen alone or seek out an occasion where this is possible..........

far too many "Classical music lovers" seem to think that their way of listening is the only one and that (and this is most evident at the Proms) we should try to make everyone behave like them as they are the REAL "music lovers".............

these things are NOT fixed, they change with time (as with the modern habit of playing whole symphonies and not clapping between movements).......

some people are intensely irritating in concerts but one has to be philosophical about it as that's the nature of the live experience

At least if people only cough, etc, they are making some effort to listen. "Attention, sustained, undeviating attention, is an experience of a very high order", as jazz pianist and composer said. It's the people who chat, and are therefore not there for the music, who really get my goat - especially if they drown out quieter moments in a performance. Compared with many jazz audiences, concert goers are in the main paradigms of virtue.

[jayne lee wilson]

4 weeks out of hospital after major surgery my first outing was to Petrenko's Mahler 5. Some retour a la vie that was.

Shifting seats post-interval, I found myself a row or two above a little boy who had Vasily as a hero - he wore his master's pale blue shirt and bow-tie, his short hair imitatively quiffed. As the Mahler progressed his gestures became ever more flamboyant as he copied the maestro, his mother attempting to encourage a little discretion without utter suppression of his dreams... I glanced around and saw only indulgent smiles, and I'm sure I wasn't the only one to feel a little sad when Mum decided to take him out of the hall after the 2nd movement.

His movements had become wildly obvious, but only enhanced my extreme joy in the event. But he wasn't noisy, and it's always a matter of degree. I was easily annoyed by distractions in-hall when younger, now I scarcely notice and seem to connect to the music more quickly and physically, not so bothered by bottle-swigging, coughs or restlessness as once. Disappointed if the hall isn't full too! Daresay it's different in the vast spaces of the RAH or in the Arena....

Quick note about 2012 - did anyone else fall in love with Debussy's Le Martyre as I did? And then wish other conductors would make a narrative-free recording along Knussen's lines? Only found Ansermet like this, with obvious wow&flutter on the LP-transfer download...
Bought Inghelbrecht, Munch and MTT. Sent Bernstein back - "too many words" my dear Lennie...

[french frank]

far too many "Classical music lovers" seem to think that their way of listening is the only one and that (and this is most evident at the Proms) we should try to make everyone behave like them as they are the REAL "music lovers".............

But in taking the opposite point of view, you're doing exactly the same thing, and aggravating the situation by putting "Classical music lovers" in quotes to suggest that they aren't really

The only difference is that those who are happy with/not bothered about/engage in/encourage ambient noises of various sorts can spoil the experience for those who prefer to hear the music in attentive silence, while the latter cannot, by listening quietly and attentively, spoil the experience for the others - except by making a loud angry fuss, for which they are then criticised for thinking 'their' way of listening to the music is the only one

Those who make a noise will always have the last laugh over those who prefer quiet attention - but it doesn't somehow put them on the moral high ground or make the others 'wrong'

[MrGongGong]

But in taking the opposite point of view, you're doing exactly the same thing, and aggravating the situation by putting "Classical music lovers" in quotes to suggest that they aren't really

The reason for the "" is that some (far too many IMV) people who self-identify as "Classical Music Lovers" behave as if they somehow own music and that their chosen method of participation is the only way. Which is , of course, NOT the same as saying that it's OK to chat your way through a concert. The thing I take issue with is the annexation of a musical genre.

as for ambient noise in concert halls

I've got a great idea for a piece,

in three movements
and lasting just over four and a half minutes

[heliocentric]

Probably talking should be allowed during HIP performances of baroque operas.

This probably isn't relevant, but a few weeks ago I attended a fairly informal performance of some improvised music in a bar on Earth, and began to get very annoyed by someone behind me who was obviously moving around a lot and making rather loud incomprehensible noises which sounded like exasperation. At one point I turned around ready to tell him that if he found the music so objectionable he might like to go elsewhere, and realised that in fact he was a person whose mental "health" perhaps didn't conform to that of the majority, and that his behaviour was actually an expression of being totally absorbed in the music. From that point on his enthusiastic (but not in fact overbearing) contributions contributed to my enjoyment of the music rather than detracting from it. Only saying.

[MrGongGong]

Probably talking should be allowed during HIP performances of baroque operas.

What about washing ?

[teamsaint]

The reason for the "" is that some (far too many IMV) people who self-identify as "Classical Music Lovers" behave as if they somehow own music and that their chosen method of participation is the only way. Which is , of course, NOT the same as saying that it's OK to chat your way through a concert. The thing I take issue with is the annexation of a musical genre.

as for ambient noise in concert halls

I've got a great idea for a piece,

in three movements
and lasting just over four and a half minutes

My boss has good ideas like that.......usually a few days after someone else, rather than on a 100th anniversary!
As for "annexation of a genre"....I quite agree....although back in the day the Snobbery and cliqueyness of fans of various types of indie/post punk/whatever bands was something to behold ! One sniff of a top 40 spot and credibilty shot to bits.
Oh , and some audiences at some folk gigs, (not all) can be deafening. I actually had to move to the front to hear bellowhead properly at Frome...and they aren't quiet by any stretch of the imagination !

[MrGongGong]

I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is confined to Classical music , far from it

[teamsaint]

I'm not suggesting for a moment that this is confined to Classical music , far from it

I know, folk audiences are the worst...endless yabber, or deep reverential silence. They cannot get it right !

[MrGongGong]

I know, folk audiences are the worst...endless yabber, or deep reverential silence. They cannot get it right !

Indeed I once saw a group of teenagers roundly told off and told to sit down and be quiet when they were , SHOCK HORROR, actually DANCING at the back at a Kathryn Tickell gig

[PhilipT]

What about washing ?

No problem, MrGG. We had the bathing scene in L'incoronazione di Poppea a few years ago, for instance.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

We had the bathing scene in L'incoronazione di Poppea a few years ago, for instance.

Ah! A HIP bath!


(Incidentally, isn't "HIP performance" - like "PIN number" - a sort-of tautology? "Historically Informed Performance performance"; "Personal Identification Number number"? An idle thought - my brain is getting number and number as I type!)

[heliocentric]

(Incidentally, isn't "HIP performance" - like "PIN number" - a sort-of tautology? "Historically Informed Performance performance"; "Personal Identification Number number"? An idle thought - my brain is getting number and number as I type!)

Oh god you're right. Excuse me while I take my revolver into the drawing room and do the decent thing.

[Tony Halstead]

I thought it was actually 'HIPP' or more correctly 'H.I.P.P' meaning 'Historically informed performance practice'.