Prom 71 (4.9.12): St Louis Symphony Orchestra

[prokkyshosty]

I believe this was a morbidly obese lady, just to stage right, who had a whirlwind coughing fit/death by consumption that never seemed like it would end.

Just another night at Royal Albert Hospital.

[Nick Armstrong]

I believe this was a morbidly obese lady, just to stage right, who had a whirlwind coughing fit/death by consumption that never seemed like it would end.

Just another night at Royal Albert Hospital.

But over the radio, it sounded like hard objects being hit with other hard objects. I thought some hooray in a box had been moronic with a bottle and an ice bucket...

[ahinton]

I found Schonberg's 5 Orchestral Pieces more enjoyable after the interval. Textures were better defined and the whole had a shape and purpose. When the composer first conducted the piece in London (1914) virtually 100 years ago, he was overjoyed after his work had been shunned in Vienna & Berlin

Wasn't it first conducted in London by Mr Proms himself - Henry Wood? I heard the Brahms tonight in a somewhat workmanlike performance and had to miss the rest of the concert except the Schönberg which I've certainly heard rather better but it was quite decently done and worlds above the Brahms performance that opened the concert. Don't get me started on KD! Just don't! Grrr!!!

[ardcarp]

Will this be the first and last visit of this band to the proms? I too thought the L van B concerto was mediocre....not the playing of the soloist particularly (unless he chose the speed for the final movement) but the thing never seemed to gel. A pity; it is a great work, and I felt let down.

[Petrushka]

I quite agree, but will they actually do anything?

The reputation of the Proms is at stake and they must do something. Things will only get worse if no attempt is made. I attended my first Prom in 1978 and I have never before come across rhe sort of moronic, inconsiderate behaviour as I have seen and heard this season. Is the ipod generation to blame, where music seems just another throwaway commodity?

The BBC and RAH management can act if they have the will to do so. Announcements need to be made before both halves requesting the switching off of mobile phones and to desist from unnecessary coughing. I have heard excuses from people along the lines of the hall being too hot but I can recall some really hot and sticky nights in there when the kind of bad behaviour we've seen this year has been absent.

The RAH management must cease the practise of allowing drinks in boxes. Clinking glasses are another irritant and an easy problem to solve.

A mix of better education and action is needed and much of it is easy to do. Come on BBC and RAH: get it sorted!

[prokkyshosty]

But over the radio, it sounded like hard objects being hit with other hard objects. I thought some hooray in a box had been moronic with a bottle and an ice bucket...

I shall have to go listen on iPlayer to determine what that was. At this point, there are so many distractions in the RAH that it's hard to keep them all straight.

[edashtav]

Wasn't it first conducted in London by Mr Proms himself - Henry Wood?

Sorry, sloppily and misleadingly expressed by me, AH.

Yes HW conducted it first and then invited AS to conduct it at a second concert in the same year. HW's interpretation was hissed but AS was listened to rather more attentively and respectfully (? - one critic wrote "during which the audience wore an expansive smile of suppressed merriment") than today's audience in the RAH. I suppose in our society people "let it all hang out" whilst suppression has been abandoned, or suppressed.

[amac4165]

T

The RAH management must cease the practise of allowing drinks in boxes. Clinking glasses are another irritant and an easy problem to solve.

Difficult given most of the boxes are privately owned ! Nearly on 50 concerts so far this year and can't say it is any worse than previous years. The coughing start of the slow mvt was bad though - worst I have heard in a long time.

Otherwise a good concert and the orchestra seemed a good solid one - disappointed by the American in Paris - he/she did not appear to being having much fun on his holiday !

amac

[Pabmusic]

Wasn't it first conducted in London by Mr Proms himself - Henry Wood? ...

...Yes HW conducted it first and then invited AS to conduct it at a second concert in the same year. HW's interpretation was hissed but AS was listened to rather more attentively and respectfully (? - one critic wrote "during which the audience wore an expansive smile of suppressed merriment") than today's audience in the RAH. I suppose in our society people "let it all hang out" whilst suppression has been abandoned, or suppressed.

What Wood conducted was actually the work's premiere, on 3 September 1912. In the audience was the young Adrian Boult, who later recalled (his words):

"I had a gangway seat and was astonished to feel a thump on my shoulder immediately the work was finished, and looking up, saw a radiant smile from a total stranger and heard, 'Bless my soul, that's funny stuff, don't you think so? I must say I rather like it when they do it loud, like Strauss, but when it's quiet all the time like this, it seems a bit obscene, doesn't it?' " The stranger was Sir Hubert Parry.

Another attendee at the premiere was Gustav Holst. He was impressed enough to buy a score and attend the second performance, in February 1914. Within weeks he started work on The Planets, but they were not called that yet. They were Seven Pieces for Large Orchestra (the only title on the autograph full score). Holst described the Schoenberg as being "like Wagner, but without the tunes".

[kernelbogey]

How effortlessly KD irritates!

What did she say?

'First-naming the hell out of' [Tom Wolfe] the conductor and soloist - just in case we forget she's their pal - and that constriction of the throat that's meant to convey that she's on the point of laughter - like she's chatting me up at a cocktail party. Ugh! Enough.

I like that cadenza, I think transcribed as LMP says, by Schneiderhahn, if only because we hear the 'standard one' so often - is it by Kreisler? and have I remembered correctly that it was he who discovered that the two themes could be played simultaneously?

My prom listening was interrupted last night by my spectacular cascading of my dinner onto the kitchen floor, the following imprecation to wake the dead and the clean-up operation. However I thought some aspects of the concerto pleased - there was a sweetness and rather old-fashinoned rubato to Tetzlaf's playing that I enjoyed.

I'd be interested to know what irritates members about the piano version cadenza - surely not more than KD's sacharine announcing - oops! presenting - style...?

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Difficult given most of the boxes are privately owned !

Not really. The approach to the boxes is not privately owned, so drinks can be banned in that area.

[ahinton]

What Wood conducted was actually the work's premiere, on 3 September 1912. In the audience was the young Adrian Boult, who later recalled (his words):

"I had a gangway seat and was astonished to feel a thump on my shoulder immediately the work was finished, and looking up, saw a radiant smile from a total stranger and heard, 'Bless my soul, that's funny stuff, don't you think so? I must say I rather like it when they do it loud, like Strauss, but when it's quiet all the time like this, it seems a bit obscene, doesn't it?' " The stranger was Sir Hubert Parry.

Another attendee at the premiere was Gustav Holst. He was impressed enough to buy a score and attend the second performance, in February 1914. Within weeks he started work on The Planets, but they were not called that yet. They were Seven Pieces for Large Orchestra (the only title on the autograph full score). Holst described the Schoenberg as being "like Wagner, but without the tunes".

Yes indeed it was the première. Sorabji attended either that performance or the one conducted by the composer or both - I can't now recall the details. He also attended the UK première of Gurrelieder during the 1920s, again conducted by the composer (who had earlier had great success conducting the work in Sweden). He told me that, had Schönberg chosen to pursue conducting as his principal career, he would have been recognised as someone at least of the statue of Toscanini; he was astonished at the sheer power that Schönberg had over orchestras to get them to achieve things beyond their capabilities. As far as I know, he never observed Schönberg in rehearsal, but from what little I know of the subject tends to suggest that he got his results by gently subtle persuasion rather than full-on autocracy. In this he rather reminds me of Ronald Stevenson the pianist - capable de tout but with frustratingly scant evidence to prove it!

I knew of Parry's response but have never quite understood what he meant. I also knew about the pre-planetary Planets (andere Planeten?!) but it's good to have reminders of reception of Schönberg's work in Britain, especially with him at the helm.

[Pabmusic]

...[Sorabji] told me that, had Schönberg chosen to pursue conducting as his principal career, he would have been recognised as someone at least of the statue of Toscanini...

At least of the stature of Toscanini?

[mercia]

did anyone take up KD's suggestion of watching the Schoenberg/Gershwin film ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cn1L_cgHPY

[amateur51]

did anyone take up KD's suggestion of watching the Schoenberg/Gershwin film ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Cn1L_cgHPY

Amazing film PLUS Schoenberg speaking a moving tribute to Gershwin - not heard Schoenberg speaking before.

"n this 1937 silent home movie, mostly shot by Gershwin himself, can be seen Arnold Schoenberg, and his wife Gertrud, Gertruds brother Rudi Kolisch (of the Kolisch string quartet) and Doris Vidor and a few brief glimpses of Gershwin himself. The musical extract accompanying the video is the beginning of Schoenbergs String Quartet no.4 Op.37, written in 1936, in a 1937 recording by the Kolisch Quartet that was sponsored by George Gershwin. Gershwin and Schoenberg were also tennis partners in Hollywood, and this film was taken on Gershwins tennis court at Roxbury Drive, Beverley Hills. Also included on this short video is a photograph of Gershwin at work on his famous oil painting portrait of Schoenberg, accompanied by Schoenbergs moving tribute to Gershwin recorded July 12th 1937, the day after Gershwins untimely death at the age of only 38."

The above accompanies the youtube link & is from Jack Gibbons