Prom 63 (30.8.12): Berlin Philharmonic and Sir Simon Rattle

[Roehre]

Thirded, good luck and best wishes Ferret

Fourthed, all the best, FF !

[amateur51]

Fair point - my bastard may be your legitimate off-spring.

.. beautifully put, edashtav ... I think

[antongould]

I have at last managed to Listen to this without grandchildren and work demanding my attention - and have to admit to being spellbound - the quality of sound, the programme, the whole thing - sheer joy.

[ahinton]

I loved Rattle's vision of Sibelius 4 - but his account of Luto 3 was beyond mind-boggling; I've always held the latter in high regard but have nevertheless been a tad bothered by what has always previously struck me as something of a lack of sufficient focus and a rather too easy tendency on the composer's part to gild a not especially outstanding lily - but how marvellous to be proved so wrong in so wonderful a performance! I've never heard it played so convincingly. Did Szymanowski ever stop looking over Luto's shoulder, though? (and nothing wrong with that if not!). I only wish that the composer could have heard this...

[Tapiola]

I loved Rattle's vision of Sibelius 4 - but his account of Luto 3 was beyond mind-boggling; I've always held the latter in high regard but have nevertheless been a tad bothered by what has always previously struck me as something of a lack of sufficient focus and a rather too easy tendency on the composer's part to gild a not especially outstanding lily - but how marvellous to be proved so wrong in so wonderful a performance! I've never heard it played so convincingly. Did Szymanowski ever stop looking over Luto's shoulder, though? (and nothing wrong with that if not!). I only wish that the composer could have heard this...

Mr Hinton,

I am surprised. If I am not mistaken by your post, I gather that your opinion of Mr Luto is that he is not one of the greats of the 20th C? Am I correct? Surely you would view works such as the 2nd, and Livres (along with with works such as Jeux Venetiens) as siginificant? I apologise if I have picked you up incorrectly!

BTW, your Szymanowski reference is most apposite (imo).

[Tapiola]

Mr Hinton,

I am surprised. If I am not mistaken by your post, I gather that your opinion of Mr Luto is that he is not one of the greats of the 20th C? Am I correct? Surely you would view works such as the 2nd, and Livres (along with with works such as Jeux Venetiens) as siginificant? I apologise if I have picked you up incorrectly!

BTW, your Szymanowski reference is most apposite (imo).

From re-reading your post, I may have misinterpreted your opinion. If so, I am sorry!

[Tapiola]

From re-reading your post, I may have misinterpreted your opinion. If so, I am sorry!

After a third reading. I have come to the conclusion that you are talking about the 3rd Symphony and not Luto in general. I hope I have got it right this time!

If I AM right, then I can do nothing but wholeheartedly agree! The 3rd was always a stumbling block for me. Against my Rattle prejudices, last night convinced me of this symphony's greatness!

[Nick Armstrong]

Having a nice chat with yourself, Taps?

Good for you! So difficult to find good conversation these days

[Tapiola]

Having a nice chat with yourself, Taps?

Good for you! So difficult to find good conversation these days

The only way to guarantee intelligent conversation...

(Mrs T is all picture these days. She hates The Proms (and me for that matter!))

[Nick Armstrong]

The only way to guarantee intelligent conversation...

(Mrs T is all picture these days. She hates The Proms (and me for that matter!))

As a compensation, you seem to have be having most entertaining conversational intercourse with V. Consort Esq. on t'other thread. It made me smile

[Tapiola]

intercourse

Those were the days, my friend.

[jayne lee wilson]

I returned to part 1 of the first Rattle/BPO concert today and was, if anything, even more impressed. Rattle's comment to the excellent Andrew Macgregor was, if you played Atmospheres and the Lohengrin Act 1 prelude simultaneously (I wish someone would...) you'd almost have Sibelius 4.

The reading of the 4th itself seemed quite bleak enough, using the rich and full, (double)bass-founded sonority of this great orchestra (with fairly moderate tempi) to sound out the harmonic and textural spaces in the resounding acoustic. It didn't seem too "beautiful" or "smooth" at all - the clarity of texture, articulation and the very wide dynamic range presented us with a clear-eyed drama that needed no further emphasis.
MacGregor commented that his producer couldn't think of another symphony which ended mezzoforte - and perhaps even more strikingly, with the marking "dolce" over the last bars. "Dolce" at the end of Sibelius 4! Remember the composer saying at the time "nothing of the circus about it"? Well, no exaggerated bleakness or jagged, thinned-out sonorities either perhaps.

If Rattle's performance can tell us anything, it's that even this symphony - not as catastrophic as Mahler 6 , but surely quite as despairing - can respond to more varying interpretative approaches than we may have thought.

[Tapiola]

if you played Atmospheres and the Lohengrin Act 1 prelude simultaneously ... you'd almost have Sibelius 4.

I'm sorry Jayne, but that sounds like a comment from a wide-eyed music student. If Rattle said that, he remains the wide-eyed student to me.

[jayne lee wilson]

I might like to hear such a thing, but Rattle was perhaps being less literal! Try it for yourself if you can set it up...

...or maybe you don't have to, as the 3rd Symphony of Lepo Sumera (1988, BIS CD-660) has almost done it for you...

[Tapiola]

Too long in the tooth maybe, Jayne, for trying such silliness (at the ripe old age of 43!). I appreciate your apologism for Rattle (if that is what it is), but, for better or worse, his attitude to music has always reminded me of Beecham's view of the English: he loves the sound that music makes, but he doesn't understand it! He sometimes gets great results, but doesn't understand why, or how it has happened!