Prom 46 (16.8.12): Vaughan Williams – Symphonies Nos. 4, 5 & 6

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  • Lateralthinking1

    #46
    Excellent performances and clearly much credit must go to Manze. His feelings for the music shone through the entire orchestra.

    If the night was a concept, it was for once one that made sense. 4, 5 and 6 might simply be 4, 5 and 6 but surely they are also the before, during and after the last war.

    As 3's Breakfast Houdini said, VW wasn't in the meadows here. Even he was unsure whether he liked the 4th but it did what he intended. The 6th is the apocalyptic companion to its foreboding, even if he disliked that etched in script.

    And rather as Britain was in 1948, it is noticeably more mature. Everything comes together but emotionally a heavy price has been paid for it. It is grave but undeniably impressive.

    It is the 5th though that I love. It might have been written when the country was in the thick of it. It achieves the impossible by almost escaping into bucolic fantasy. And then as it rises to the heavens, its form of rebellion is a thing of real beauty.

    That it is "the middle one" that is the easiest to play says much about the SSO's task tonight. They dealt with it magnificently. As for John Shirley-Quirk, experts can use the past tense but he got married in 2009 as any self-respecting 78 year old would.

    Comment

    • LeMartinPecheur
      Full Member
      • Apr 2007
      • 4717

      #47
      Listening on R3 (forgot it was on BBC4) my stand-out moment tonight was that big slushy strings & harp tune in 6i. I've never felt before that it really fitted in with the rest of the work properly. But tonight it did. Manze seemed to play down the slushiness/ripeness/ English pastoral factor just a teenzy bit and left the passage sounding just a tad uneasy, so that for me it didn't stick out like a sore thumb as it always has before. Hurrah! Just a tiny detail in one magnificent evening.

      Wasn't too sure beforehand if the 3 symphonies together would be too much - it wasn't. Rather it confirmed what I've never doubted: what a great, multi-faceted, complex genius RVW is. Vivat!

      So 4 next time, 1, 2, 3 and 7? The soprano can really earn her corn in 1, 3 and 7 together
      I keep hitting the Escape key, but I'm still here!

      Comment

      • Il Grande Inquisitor
        Full Member
        • Mar 2007
        • 961

        #48
        Wonderful concert from start to finish, but the 5th was outstanding, right from the opening bars. Manze's conducting style is precise, eschewing big, crowd-pleasing gestures; he knows exactly what he wants and the BBCSSO responded magnificently. The 6th was perhaps the most edge-of-seat. Manze certainly had his eye on the score much more than the previous symphonies, but the performance was still very fine. The finale was quiet, although I'd imagine they would aim for something quieter in a hall smaller than the RAH barn.

        I feel that in Andrew Manze RVW has his next great champion in the post-Hickox & Handley era

        Great to chat with Caliban and Rubbernecker in the interval!
        Our chief weapon is surprise...surprise and fear...fear and surprise.... Our two weapons are fear and surprise...and ruthless efficiency....

        Comment

        • Nick Armstrong
          Host
          • Nov 2010
          • 26524

          #49
          Originally posted by waldhorn View Post
          Not just 'grandeur' but IMV a real understanding of the music's deeper undercurrents and 'subtexts'. Having played many times for Manze in the 'HIPP' context I am VERY impressed to see ( and hear) him doing wonderful things for the lamentably under-valued VW.
          One of the best evenings I have ever spent in the RAH. Too much to say for now, save that I agree with all the positive comments here. Just brilliant from start to finish. I hope they issue the recordings on CD... DVD... Need to start a petition.

          Magnificent.
          "...the isle is full of noises,
          Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
          Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
          Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

          Comment

          • Nick Armstrong
            Host
            • Nov 2010
            • 26524

            #50
            Originally posted by Il Grande Inquisitor View Post
            Wonderful concert from start to finish, but the 5th was outstanding, right from the opening bars. Manze's conducting style is precise, eschewing big, crowd-pleasing gestures; he knows exactly what he wants and the BBCSSO responded magnificently. The 6th was perhaps the most edge-of-seat. Manze certainly had his eye on the score much more than the previous symphonies, but the performance was still very fine. The finale was quiet, although I'd imagine they would aim for something quieter in a hall smaller than the RAH barn.

            I feel that in Andrew Manze RVW has his next great champion in the post-Hickox & Handley era

            Great to chat with Caliban and Rubbernecker in the interval!
            Simultaneous posting! And identical use of the 'start to finish' phrase Wavelengths etc...

            Thanks for coming by! Sorry I had to break off and head for the gents: lucky I did, it was "prostate city" down there, big queue with the "concert will continue in 3 minutes" announcement going off Only just made it back to the seat in time


            "...the isle is full of noises,
            Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
            Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
            Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

            Comment

            • Ferretfancy
              Full Member
              • Nov 2010
              • 3487

              #51
              I agree with every word of praise, the best Prom I have been able to attend this year, and the crowd around me were in rapt attention throughout. I think that the loud outburst during the last movement of 6 came from somebody in the Stalls who had been trying hard to suppress it. What wonderful symphonies these are !

              One small point, when I worked in BH Control Room a special notice was sent to everyone down the line when VW 6 was due to be played. There was a standard ruling that if there was more than two minutes of low modulation peaking only 2 on the PPM, the level should be raised, but not for VW 6 in any circumstances ! Apparently this rule still applies.

              Comment

              • jayne lee wilson
                Banned
                • Jul 2011
                • 10711

                #52
                Well FF, sad to say it certainly didn't apply on FM tonight (auto-Optimod no doubt) and was audibly broken even on HD sound, the live AAC feed, where the boost to level in the 6th's epilogue sounded manually applied...

                Comment

                • Bryn
                  Banned
                  • Mar 2007
                  • 24688

                  #53
                  Originally posted by jayne lee wilson View Post
                  Well FF, sad to say it certainly didn't apply on FM tonight (auto-Optimod no doubt) and was audibly broken even on HD sound, the live AAC feed, where the boost to level sounded manual, i.e real time...
                  The RVW 4, 5 & 6 Prom is now up on the iPlayer Listen Again facility. I noticed at least one audio drop-out via BBC4 Freeview. I will have a quick look at the dynamic profile of the Listen Again HDS offering before turning in.

                  A quick look shows no signs of dynamic limitation. Maximum peak was 3.9dB below saturation (clipping level), during the scherzo of the 6th. Off to bed now. Will have a closer look and listen in a couple of days time (after recovering from the Cage events).
                  Last edited by Bryn; 17-08-12, 00:03. Reason: Update.

                  Comment

                  • teamsaint
                    Full Member
                    • Nov 2010
                    • 25200

                    #54
                    just got back from London. What to say?I could write for an hour ! I had been looking forward to this a great deal...and i wasn't disappointed.
                    An absolutely sensational night. I am no concert hall veteran, so I will leave the detail to others.However, just a few thoughts. Firstly, what a reward for a great piece of programming. It worked so well.
                    As to the pieces, I don't want to criticise at all, but if I did, it would be for a slight lack of punch in the fourth symphony.. However, I was standing near the front, near the cellos, and the distance from the violins may have been the cause of this.
                    otherwise.....just wonderful. As to the last movement of the Sixth...the volume seemed perfect from where I was. It was certainly quiet enough, and, to be frank, it left me as emotionally drained as music can.
                    The Orchestra seemed so engaged, and looked delighted with the ovation...I hope they were, they and Manze made a lot of fans tonight.

                    My only real regret is that EdgeleyRob wasn't there....he would have loved it, I am sure.
                    I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My life is my own.

                    I am not a number, I am a free man.

                    Comment

                    • Nick Armstrong
                      Host
                      • Nov 2010
                      • 26524

                      #55
                      Originally posted by teamsaint View Post
                      just got back from London. What to say?I could write for an hour ! I had been looking forward to this a great deal...and i wasn't disappointed.
                      An absolutely sensational night. I am no concert hall veteran, so I will leave the detail to others.However, just a few thoughts. Firstly, what a reward for a great piece of programming. It worked so well.
                      As to the pieces, I don't want to criticise at all, but if I did, it would be for a slight lack of punch in the fourth symphony.. However, I was standing near the front, near the cellos, and the distance from the violins may have been the cause of this.
                      otherwise.....just wonderful. As to the last movement of the Sixth...the volume seemed perfect from where I was. It was certainly quiet enough, and, to be frank, it left me as emotionally drained as music can.
                      The Orchestra seemed so engaged, and looked delighted with the ovation...I hope they were, they and Manze made a lot of fans tonight.

                      My only real regret is that EdgeleyRob wasn't there....he would have loved it, I am sure.


                      We should have organised a hardcore RVW fan gathering over Spitfire ale...
                      "...the isle is full of noises,
                      Sounds and sweet airs, that give delight and hurt not.
                      Sometimes a thousand twangling instruments
                      Will hum about mine ears, and sometime voices..."

                      Comment

                      • jayne lee wilson
                        Banned
                        • Jul 2011
                        • 10711

                        #56
                        Originally posted by Bryn View Post
                        The RVW 4, 5 & 6 Prom is now up on the iPlayer Listen Again facility. I noticed at least one audio drop-out via BBC4 Freeview. I will have a quick look at the dynamic profile of the Listen Again HDS offering before turning in.

                        A quick look shows no signs of dynamic limitation. Maximum peak was 3.9dB below saturation (clipping level), during the scherzo of the 6th. Off to bed now. Will have a closer look and listen in a couple of days time (after recovering from the Cage events).
                        Thanks Bryn - I had no issue with the dynamic range most of the time, it was the audible fade-up and down in the epilogue which bothered me - subtler than on FM, but clearly fading down between the last note and the applause. I'll try to find time to check the iPlayer recording, see if it's been corrected - but as you say, there's a bit of an event Friday night, (and the non-musical daytime looks pretty busy too...)

                        Comment

                        • ahinton
                          Full Member
                          • Nov 2010
                          • 16122

                          #57
                          I can do no other than join the increasingly large chrous of warm approbation for last night's Prom. Ingenious programming, a substantial proportion of RVW firing on all cylinders and performances more than powerful and persuasive enough to silence all doubters that such a programme could actually work. If I have the slightest reservation, it is - as has already been suggested - something of a lack of punch and bite in parts of the Fourth Symphony which just cries out for a pretty much no-holds-barred approach and would have set the scene for the remainder of the concert even better. A symphony in three movements, each of which was a Vaughan Williams symphony!

                          Having remarked earlier about the Shostakovich 4 coda coincidence (for that's surely all that it could possibly be) in respect of the opening of VW5, I was then confronted with all those premonitions of Shostakovich's 8th Quartet and 10th Symphony in VW6, most especially the second movement - and that motif E-F-G-A flat that pervades the work as a whole is a transposition and re-ordering of D-S-C-H...
                          Last edited by ahinton; 17-08-12, 06:52.

                          Comment

                          • ahinton
                            Full Member
                            • Nov 2010
                            • 16122

                            #58
                            Originally posted by ahinton View Post
                            Could anyone help me here? I need (or think at least that I should feel a need) to find some way in which to dissociate my mind from an almost identical passage in the coda to Shostakovich's 4th Symphony (and in the same key, too) when I hear the opening (albeit in an entirely different context) of Vaughan Williams's 5th; I've simply never been able to do that. Of course VW couldn't have know the work, even though it was completed a few years before his, since the DDS was withdrawn never to be heard in its proper orchestral garb during VW's lifetime...
                            NOT in the same key! Silly a**e! What on earth was I thinking of?! I can only blame last night's VW fixation for that absurd pitch distraction...

                            Comment

                            • Extra Vaganza

                              #59
                              Originally posted by JoeG View Post
                              Probably my favourite Prom ever - to have three such masterpieces performed so well in one concert (and a respectful audience who allowed the essential silence at the end of the music) is rare treat indeed. Well done to BBC 4 for televising this as it could have been deemed too specialist.
                              That's just exactly what I was about to write, JoeG.

                              My favourite RVW symphony to begin. Rage and Confusion! Then No 5 - "Music to Soothe the Savage Breast" That slow movement must be one of the most beautiful, but heart-rending music ever written.

                              An interval that was not the usual banal twitterings by a bunch of knowall enthusiasts, but some intelligent(and enlightening) comments by Martin and his guests.
                              Then No 6. "New Horizons" A rebuilding job to be tackled and patience needed. Those menacing trumpet notes, marking the passage of time, very significant.
                              And above all, a respectful audience who did not dutifully follow the usual idiot who starts to applaud at the end of every movement!

                              Prom of the season in my opinion. Unfortunate for the Sao Paulo visitors that their concert the previous night will inevitably be compared with this.

                              EV

                              Comment

                              • gurnemanz
                                Full Member
                                • Nov 2010
                                • 7382

                                #60
                                I was out last night but had set the recorder. I watched the Fourth before going to bed and found it compelling. I am looking forward to playing the next two today.

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