Prom 43 (14.8.12): Delius, Saint-Saëns & Tchaikovsky

[Alison]

I found that Benjamin Grosvenor brought something very special to the second movement with the limpid tone and beautifully pointed phrasing.

Yes, Ben superlative IMHO though I agree with the comments on the orchestra which seemed generally out of sorts throughout the whole programme. The final stages of the symphony may have brought some much delayed excitement
but even here there was a certain lack of focus and momentum.

[amateur51]

Well that is very interesting, because in my message, I wrote:

" ... The symphony was too quiet in the opening for me and I thought the tuning of the solo clarinet was suspect. "Statictissimo" is how I would describe some of Duthoits passages in the first two movements, but it got better thereafter - suggesting to me that the orchestra decided to take over and get the whole thing wrapped up."

... and I wasn't there - I just sensed it.



EV

I'm glad we concurred then, EV

[Sir Monty Golfear]

Yes, Ben superlative IMHO though I agree with the comments on the orchestra which seemed generally out of sorts throughout the whole programme. The final stages of the symphony may have brought some much delayed excitement
but even here there was a certain lack of focus and momentum.

Even in the Saint-Saens I heard some uncharacteristicly poor ensemble and tuning.

[jayne lee wilson]

I feel that some may not appreciate that Paris is an early work in which the influence of Richard Strauss is quite strong, so in that respect Dutoit's approach was quite correct. When I spoke of noisy climaxes I was referring to the fact that a great deal is going on in them, and if the right strands do not tell the result is confusion, and this was the effect from where I was standing. Beecham or Mackerras understood this better than Dutoit, I feel. Perhaps their recordings have spoiled me.

Certainly Delius throws a few Straussian moves - those swaggering horns - but they sound oddly invasive, an influence among several. Those early, hushed wind and horn solos sound very English to me, reminiscent of VW's early evocations; again, some of the rhythms have a distinctly English folksy lilt. But the brash, brittle brilliance of the climaxes seems to reveal a French orchestral influence. I felt Dutoit tried (if he tried at all) to fill out the sound too much, losing that bright transparency and betraying the multi-coloured (or multicultural...) character of the piece.

I listened overnight to Collins/LSO and Mackerras/RLPO: much better of course, and reminding me how complex, strange and rewarding it is: Delius showing his influences but well advanced in evolving his fluid, rhapsodical style; the inspirational energies move through the music like a wave through water, or wind through an arboretum.

[prokkyshosty]

Even in the Saint-Saens I heard some uncharacteristicly poor ensemble and tuning.

I agree. Something was off in there. I thought I had it sussed out as being a single clarinet that was off, but I never had enough evidence to prove guilt.

[Sir Monty Golfear]

I agree. Something was off in there. I thought I had it sussed out as being a single clarinet that was off, but I never had enough evidence to prove guilt.

Some rather sour clarinet, and horns in first movement . I think the rather average piece by Delius sent the RPO into some sort of comatose state !

[jayne lee wilson]

Some rather sour clarinet, and horns in first movement . I think the rather average piece by Delius sent the RPO into some sort of comatose state !

Please try to listen to Paris again... more than once if possible... it might surprise you.

[Ferretfancy]

Please try to listen to Paris again... more than once if possible... it might surprise you.

I'd second that, and I think we broadly agree about the Dutoit approach. This was the first time I had heard it in the concert hall, although I know it well from several recordings. I would love to hear a live performance of Appalachia, but might have to wait for a while.

[PJPJ]

I agree. Something was off in there. I thought I had it sussed out as being a single clarinet that was off, but I never had enough evidence to prove guilt.

I'm sorry to agree with you both (and with others, too) - I also suspect a dodgy clart. It's particularly noticeable in a couple of passages with piano and clarinet in unison - sounds as though a good re-tune was needed after the Delius.

Speaking of which, I did enjoy Dutoit's performance through much better sound equipment yesterday. I know it's not Delius's greatest work but I've had a soft spot for it for a long time.

[Nick Armstrong]

I was at the Hall last evening...

Great to read that account, and amusing too, esp. the status update on the Dutoit coiffure

sionc

A Bbm-tribute typo? A term of art in the hairdressing milieu? *

Could you elucidate?


*Maybe it's Welsh?!

[amateur51]

Great to read that account, and amusing too, esp. the status update on the Dutoit coiffure




A Bbm-tribute typo? A term of art in the hairdressing milieu? *

Could you elucidate?


*Maybe it's Welsh?!

That's what it is

[Pianorak]

Great to read that account, and amusing too, esp. the status update on the Dutoit coiffure




A Bbm-tribute typo? A term of art in the hairdressing milieu? *

Could you elucidate?


*Maybe it's Welsh?!

Nah - not Welsh - it's Gog. Proper Welsh is Hwntw. Anyway, sionc = nimble, brisk.

[amateur51]

Nah - not Welsh - it's Gog. Proper Welsh is Hwntw. Anyway, sionc = nimble, brisk.

My Nain & Taid used 'sionc' to mean 'well-turned out' and 'chipper' too -as in "I saw old Will Parry in town - looking proper sionc he was"


It's well known that South Wales Welsh doesn't have the extensive vocabulary of that from the North (and the Middle)

[Nick Armstrong]

Thanks both! I take it that it sounds just how it looks? One syllable - syonk - or two - see-onc?

[amateur51]

Thanks both! I take it that it sounds just how it looks? One syllable - syonk - or two - see-onc?

Right first time, Cali!