Prom 39 (11.8.12): Berlioz – Requiem

[feddle]

Just found this forum - how marvellous. Strikes me that this is the one place that I can post this ridiculous question with the possibility of someone knowing the answer. The Berlioz has been playing constantly in my head since Saturday. The question. I first heard the Requiem in 1983 as an impressionable 20 year old (late starter), on a record borrowed from Kensington Library. The Sanctus with that tenor has haunted me ever since. Yes I taped it - just the Sanctus (sorry) - I wrote nothing about who the mysterious tenor was, which orchestra, conductor. Aaagh. It is a thin reedy tenor, properly spine tingling. Nothing like today's richer sounds. Perhaps not even very good when I listened again yesterday! Vague memory that it was a French orchestra. Yesterday I spent too long listening (on presto classical) to the Sanctus on editions from before 1983. None of the tenors match. Of course I can't do that with the Bernstein. Oh WHO IS IT <shouting>. Think I am going mad. Help. Anyone?

And I hope I to enjoy Toby Spence's Sanctus again one day - truly lovely in the lower notes.

[french frank]

Hello, feddle - and welcome! I do hope someone can save you from madness.

Any suggestions, anyone?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Hello, feddle - and welcome! I do hope someone can save you from madness.

No chance if s/he joins these Boards!

Yes, welcome, indeed, feddle: it was hearing the Te Deum in Durham Cathedral in 1982 that made me "click" with Berlioz. I was 22 - an even later "starter" than you, but I've been clicking ever since.

Of LPs likely to have been available from a library in 1983:

Robert TEAR with Lois FREMEAUX and the CBSO (1975) and in 1980 with PREVIN. (Both EMI)
Ronald DOWD with Colin DAVIS (Philips 1969)
Kenneth RIEGEL with Lorin MAAZEL (CBS 1978)
Leopold SIMONEAU with Charles MUNCH (RCA 1954)

Cesar VALLETTI with Eugene ORMANDY (CBS 1964)
David RENDELL with Michael GIELEN (1979)
Charles BRESSLER with Maurice ABRAVENAL (Vanguard 1969)

... and BERNSTEIN (CBS - one of my favourites, too!) and BARENBOIM (DG 1979 - with Placido DOMINGO, whose voice isn't usually described as "thin, reedy"!)

Hope this helps to jog a memory or two. (LP covers are available on an internet search, which might also be useful.)

Best Wishes.

[amateur51]

No chance if s/he joins these Boards!

Yes, welcome, indeed, feddle: it was hearing the Te Deum in Durham Cathedral in 1982 that made me "click" with Berlioz. I was 22 - an even later "starter" than you, but I've been clicking ever since.

Of LPs likely to have been available from a library in 1983:

Robert TEAR with Lois FREMEAUX and the CBSO (1975) and in 1980 with PREVIN. (Both EMI)
Ronald DOWD with Colin DAVIS (Philips 1969)
Kenneth RIEGEL with Lorin MAAZEL (CBS 1978)
Leopold SIMONEAU with Charles MUNCH (RCA 1954)

Cesar VALLETTI with Eugene ORMANDY (CBS 1964)
David RENDELL with Michael GIELEN (1979)
Charles BRESSLER with Maurice ABRAVENAL (Vanguard 1969)

... and BERNSTEIN (CBS - one of my favourites, too!) and BARENBOIM (DG 1979 - with Placido DOMINGO, whose voice isn't usually described as "thin, reedy"!)

Hope this helps to jog a memory or two. (LP covers are available on an internet search, which might also be useful.)

Best Wishes.

Great stuff ferney - that's seriously useful research!

Good luck feddle - hope you find him

[JohnSkelton]

Great stuff ferney - that's seriously useful research!

Good luck feddle - hope you find him

There's also a DG Munch recording with the Bavarian RSO and Peter Schreier as the tenor - which was the recording I first heard (again, borrowed from the local library). Maybe Schreier's tenor fits the description? (great singer).

Image http://www.recordsale.de/cdpix/b/ber...r_rundfunk.jpg

[feddle]

Oh this is brilliant. Thanks very much for all your help and encouragement! (frankly I could probably be putting my time to better use). I've been listening to my old tape recording, trying to compare how the singer approaches the high notes as well as his tone. Have ruled out Tear, Dowd - that close, though - Riegel and Simoneau. Can't find a Valletti to listen to. Not Rendell, not Bressler.

Bernstein I thought might be it, but Stuart Burrows has too big a voice (technical terms I know). Though I do have a faint memory of it being a French orchestra or choir. I can't find an online Sanctus to listen to and might have to buy this one because it gets such rave reviews.

And it's definitely not Domingo!

Then I looked on Amazon and found a vinyl with a picture of a cathedral on the cover - this rang faint bells. It's the July 1967 Munch, Bayerishen Rundfunks Orchestra with Schreier. I listened to his Sanctus, this might be it! A little more effortful perhaps, slightly fuller voice. But then there's the loss of quality with my basic recording.

I rang Kensington Library too! Unsurprisingly they don't still have catalogue or borrower records from that time but would have loved to help. I think I will call it a day now. Thanks again

[annaliese]

Message received and understood - but perhaps we should point out that the classic Munch recording is not the one to which you refer.

It wasn't the Munch, and as I don't want to tangle with the east, perhaps I'll leave it there....
I do envy those people listening for the first time on Saturday, and discovering the work. We are fortunate to have a number of good recordings, given the huge resources required.

[Flosshilde]

(frankly I could probably be putting my time to better use).

Join the club, Fettle , & you are welcome to it . My partner's been making threatening noises recently about cutting me off - not sure what from, though

[David-G]

I think nobody has yet mentioned the recent McCreesh recording on period instruments, which has garnered great praise. I have a copy of this, but have not been able to play it yet as my CD player is defunct. However, the booklet answers mopsus's question:

I was also more or less in the middle of the Arena. I didn't think the brass drowned out the choir too much in the loud passages, but I missed the sonic effect of having them distributed around the hall. What is the evidence that Berlioz preferred the 'off-stage' brass (as described in the programme!) to be on the platform?

"Berlioz gives the most incredible level of detail about how this piece should be performed: the brass ensembles, for instance, should not be placed in the four corners of the building (as is all too frequently done) but on the four corners of the performing ensemble, which makes a significant difference to the sound."

Though on Saturday I would have said that the brass were in a line at the back, rather than "on the four corners"!

The recording promises delights such as "high and low horns in virtually every possible key", natural trumpets, "cornets-a-pistons", narrow-bore trombones, ophicleides, and 16 "proper 19th century timpani". And also, which sounds very intriguing, the use of "French Latin", which "dramatically changes the vocal colour".

[David Underdown]

There were groups either side at the front too

[BBMmk2]

Feddle, what better use of your time than listening to music!

[vinteuil]

I think nobody has yet mentioned the recent McCreesh recording on period instruments, which has garnered great praise.

... thanks for flagging this up. I see it attracts unanimous five-star reviews on the amazon.uk site; on the amazon.fr site there is a lengthy and thoughtful review which is more qualified *.

I don't think I can resist...

* ... he ends up saying -

"This will therefore be for 1) Berlioz fans 2) those who adore this work and collect recordings of it 3) those wishing for a more recent recording than those which currently predominate - but who should be advised that the prise de son is not ideal and that here more satisfactory recordings are available, even if they all have their shortcomings 4) those who think that a mixture or 'early' and 'modern' instruments - as is the case here - is appropriate for this 1837 work 5) all those wishing to support Anglo-Polish co-operation 6) those wishing to support Paul McCreesh in his new recording venture . For others, a recommendation to wait for a potential Gardiner recording, with the hope that we won't have to wait too long. "

That sounds a bit churlish to me - particularly in the light of the amazon.uk write-ups.
I look forward to finding out what it sounds like - and to comparing it with the Norrington, Inbal, and Davis.

[Flosshilde]

Nos. 5 & 6 seem particularly patronising. Does the reviewer (or anyone else) know that JEG is planning to record it, or is it just a hope that he will?

[vinteuil]

Does the reviewer (or anyone else) know that JEG is planning to record it, or is it just a hope that he will?

... I believe JE G performed it recently with his troops at the Festival de Saint-Denis; this was broadcast on French radio. So I suppose it's likely a recording on his own label might be forthcoming...

[Resurrection Man]

Just listened again this afternoon to the repeat and on a second hearing it does have its moments although I still think that the tempi flagged in several, for me, critical places. The sound from my feeble hi-fi system could not come anywhere near the sonic onslaught in the RAH on Saturday night.

I have the McCreesh and I prefer it to Davis.