Prom 39 (11.8.12): Berlioz – Requiem

[Dave2002]

Thanks rauschwerk and vint. Your notes re commissioning make a lot of sense, and I thought more details could have been provided in the progamme. It did seem like a very grand statement to make if there had not been any backing, even if some of it did turn out to be somewhat virtual.

I was probably at the 1969 RAH performance, though up in the circle that time. I'd forgotten that it was Colin Davis. Was there more than one performance in the RAH that year? I suppose it could just have been 2000 - it was a long time ago.

I'm still awaiting Munch's recorded version.

[Stephen Smith]

I had a seat in the stall (16 timpani - 8 players?; 5 percussionists struck cymbals with a beater, before that 3 of the timpanists joined them for a 2 cymbal flourish) I could hear the choir, except at the most fff+ moments. The Querens Me (at least I think so - the mvmt before Lacrimosa) was sung by (presumably one of the choirs) reduced forces (1st4 rows each side - perhaps the Wesh chorus?) and was beatifully done. The choral sound /execution was slightly less impressive than the previous night (also there in the stalls) - I felt the conductor was there sligthly more for the orchestra than holding everything together with the choir in the larger, expansive moments (at time, in the intimate moments he seemed more engaged with the chorus). Again (i.e. 2nd night in a row at RaH) Sopranos singing below the note on occasion.
I love the sound of the brass (6 tubas overall, for example) but it would be interesting to hear the brass bands distributed about the hall -as in Mahler 8. Nowadays, the distant bands can see the conductor (or their conductor can) and as this piece is a monumental work, it might have been better.
Agree about Toby Spence, in the upper reaches, of such a high part, he sang falsetto. He gave a very professional performance, I only hope he didn't do any damage with the significant falsetto sound he delivered. I have had the pleasure of singing in a Gerontius performance where he turned round in the rehearsal as he sang "Take me away" and the intensity, quality and quantiity of his vocal delivery was simply glorious***. I do hope he has achieved a full vocal recovery now that he is fit to work, we cannot lose a Tenor of this vocal and artistic quality.
*** And it was good to learn in an interview in "Opera" how committed he is to the role and the piece.

[Estelle]

Mary Chambers,
Thank you for your explanation about Toby Spence's recent surgery for thyroid cancer. I am so sorry to read about this. Now I understand why he was struggling with the Sanctus. It seems a shame that he couldn't have sung it in a lower register. I hope he takes some more time away from singing because it does appear he's not quite ready for works like this.

[Dave2002]

Toby is very brave for doing that if he's only fairly recently had a thyroid operation, though I suppose it might depend what the treatment was. Surgery can be very disruptive, interferes with the voice, and can take quite a while to recover from. OTOH if there was some root cause problem, then having that sorted can improve health significantly. I was amazed at how clear his voice and diction was, but was aware of some problems. I was not aware of the circumstances surrounding this singer, and have not heard him before. I hope he does recover fully in time, though it might be better for him to not have such big parts for a while. I wish him well.

[Mary Chambers]

Here's a bit about it, from the Guardian in April. He did not manage to sing Captain Vere in Billy Budd in June, as he had hoped.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/apr/26/tenor-toby-spence-recovering-from-cancer

[grandchant]

What is the evidence that Berlioz preferred the 'off-stage' brass (as described in the programme!) to be on the platform?

Well, it says in the full score 'These four small brass orchestras must be placed separately at the four corners of the grand group of choral singers and instrumentalists'. Berlioz annotates his scores with precise instructions. I've seen several performances of this piece over the years, and of those it's never been done any other way.

[Richard J.]

I too was unaware of Toby Spence's illness, and he certainly sounded far from well in the Hostias [EDIT: I mean Sanctus of course], and was not helped by what sounded like two mis-tuned flutes (e.g. 1:17:47 on the iPlayer).

Overall I felt that this performance had some rough edges, though it was on the whole undeniably impressive and moving. I can't comment on the issues of balance that have been raised as my seat in the Side Stalls was practically in the orchestra! Block O, at the end of row 4, with the trombones of brass band no. 3 on the platform extension in front of me. I was able to view and follow the 3rd trombone's score over his shoulder when he was playing. It certainly gave me a new perspective on the work.

When an epic work like this ends quietly, it's always good to have a few moments of silence and contemplation before the applause, but Fischer's 45 seconds of raised baton was OTT.

[Resurrection Man]

I was in the same spot in the Arena and pretty well spot on for me re balance. The arrayed forces were truly spectacular ....a sonic wall of sound and just wish i had my dB meter with me. I loved seeing the cymbalists (is that the right word) split into two groups caressing the cymbals...alternately between the two group...very familiar with the sound from my CD recordings and so a real pleasure to see the sound actually being created.

But overall I found the performance a little flat and unengaging with my mind wandering onto other things rather than being gripped as I was the night before at The Apostles.. Also thought the conductor milked the 'arms aloft...don't applaud until I tell you to' a tad too long.

[annaliese]

Yes, it was a long pause at the end, but I would rather have that than some idiot shrieking Bravo before the final note has ended.
How does one choose a favourite from all the Requiems (Requie (?), long time since my grade 6 O level Latin)? Brahms' German Requiem, the Verdi, the Missa Solemnis, Faure all demand consideration, and I'm sure forumites will have others.

I rashly bought a CD of the Berlioz without any research and it is terrible. I won't name names but it is apparently a mix of several performances. It has gone to the charity shop and I have returned to the old Colin Davis recording.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I rashly bought a CD of the Berlioz without any research and it is terrible. I won't name names but it is apparently a mix of several performances. It has gone to the charity shop and I have returned to the old Colin Davis recording.

Oh, give us a clue at least, annaliese: supposing one of us pops into that very charity shop and sees it?!

[annaliese]

Oh, give us a clue at least, annaliese: supposing one of us pops into that very charity shop and sees it?!

There are some highly regarded US recordings, however this one should follow the tea into the harbour.

[Flosshilde]

it is apparently a mix of several performances.

by the same orchestra/conductor/choir, or by different forces()?

[LeMartinPecheur]

Requiems (Requie (?), long time since my grade 6 O level Latin)?

Annaliese: I think we can all rest content with 'requiems'. I await correction (grade 1 O level Latin...) but it looks like the proper Latin plural might be 'requies' but I've never seen it used. 'Requies-itis' (accusative form 'requiem') means 'rest, repose' and I guess you don't often need a plural form for these commodities!

Our English usage meaning 'mass for the dead' comes from the extraction of the word from the phrase 'Dona eis requiem' - 'Grant them rest' in the Office for the Dead. Cf Te Deums, Magnificats, Nunc Dimittises, all of which ought to send a strict classicist screaming up the wall

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

There are some highly regarded US recordings, however this one should follow the tea into the harbour.

Message received and understood - but perhaps we should point out that the classic Munch recording is not the one to which you refer.

[amateur51]

Message received and understood - but perhaps we should point out that the classic Munch recording is not the one to which you refer.

What a stonker that is, ferney

My first was Barenboim with the Chicago SO and Gaston Litaize several thousand miles and months adrift