Prom 35 (9.8.12): Sibelius, Delius, Grieg & Nørgård

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Thursday 9 August at 6.30 p.m.
Royal Albert Hall

Sibelius: Symphony No. 6 in D minor (29 mins)
Delius: Cynara (10 mins)
Grieg: Piano Concerto in A minor (29 mins)
Per Nørgård: Symphony No. 7 (27 mins) - UK Premiere
Sibelius: Symphony No. 3 in C major (30 mins)

Roderick Williams baritone
Steven Osborne piano, New Generation Artist
BBC Philharmonic
John Storgårds conductor, Proms debut artist

The BBC Philharmonic is joined by John Storgårds for his first Prom as Principal Guest Conductor in a celebration of Nordic composers with just a dash of British. Two symphonies by Sibelius frame the concert. Grieg's only complete Piano Concerto is played by Steven Osborne, and two composer anniversaries are celebrated with music by Per Nørgård and Frederick Delius.

As Per Nørgård's celebrates his 80th birthday the Proms presents his exciting and unpredictable 7th symphony, composed for the opening of Copenhagen's new concert hall. Storgårds also champions music by British composers, turning the spotlight tonight on Delius in his 150th anniversary year. His evocative setting of words by Ernest Dowson is brought to life by baritone Roderick Williams.

[Estelle]

Poor Prom, to languish unnoticed at the bottom of the list!

[edashtav]

Brilliant Borealis 4-tet from RNCM

Poor Prom, to languish unnoticed at the bottom of the list!

Not unnoticed, Estelle, just so difficult to put into words. I went to the Concert with 5000 other souls and it was a long evening, over three hours in length but full of loving playing from the orchestra, complemented by exquisite touch from Steven Osborne and a beautifully spun line from Roderick Williams in Delius's recondite Cynara. And, the young conductor, John Storgårds, knew and got what he wanted - he was in charge. Yet, despite a generous three symphonies, this concert seemed no more than a divertimento, an ear-tingling upbeat to a real event that never arrived.

Why was that? Well, I feel that Storgårds' interpretation of Sibelius reduced the stature of symphonies 3 & 6 to the level of Valse Triste: salon music.The beauty was all in the moment and about solo-players massaging their lines into poetic shapes. Take the grit from granite and you're left with a nonsense word. You took the craggy, obtuseness from Jean Sibelius, Mr Storgårds, and left us with sentimental mush. (There's another thread running on Glazunov and on the way home, it suddenly clicked: Storgårds had reduced Sibelius to his exact contemporary, Glazunov. Both were born in 1865, both wrote a clutch of symphonies, enjoyed too many tipples, fell silent & morose... But, of course, I rank Sibelius's music far higher than that of his Russian contemporary. Frankly, if an innocent ear were to guess which composer wrote the middle movement of the 3rd after last night's performance, it might have thought, "Mmm Sibelius didn't write a ballet, did he, but Glazunov wrote several? It must be Glazunov.")

What of the Per Nørgård? It seemed like an efficient performance of his Schnittkesque 7th symphony, but it had none of the passion exhibited by the string quartet and Borealis saxophone quartet in the superb FREE composer portrait at the RCM. Ivan Hewett and Andrew MGregor introduced the composer with insight and humour but the RNCM musicians were on fire. Daniel White on Bass saxophone in the cheeky Saxophone Quartet was brilliant. Watch out for his name. Even weighed down by a cumbersome instrument that rarely stars in the classical scene , I predict a bright future for this young man. Were I in charge of a Chamber Music Society, I'd be ringing the RNCM today to book the saxophone quartet and the Per Nørgård for the first convenient date. Meanwhile, I shall encourage the Borealis to look at similar scores by Michael Torke.

Having reported that a previous composer portrait, of Kaija Saariaho by a R.3 personality (it would do him a disservice were he to be named) was a disaster, I'm so pleased to report that the Per Nørgård Portrait was brilliant - R.3 back to its its best and reaching a standard that would have graced the dear old Third Programme.

[Dave2002]

Sorry to disagree with the others, but I thought ths Sibelius symohonies were fine, and I particularly enjoyed the first two movements of the third symphony, which I don't recall ever having heard live. It sounded much better than any of the recordings or broadcasts I've heard. It did tail off slightly toward the end I felt. There could have been more exuberance from the brass, though there was plenty of that earlier. I will no longer think of the 3rd as merely an also ran.

I always enjoy the Grieg piano concerto, but I think it has to be played superbly well to work. it was good, but not superb. The Delius was played and sung beautifully, though whether it's a piece I'll want to listen to much I rather doubt.

Then there was the Nørgård symphony. I had hoped to enjoy this, or at least find it interesting, but unfortunately I didn't. I will try to listen to it again, but I'm not over hopeful that repeated listening will be either pleasant or worthwhile.

[Bax-of-Delights]

I was wondering where the thread for this Prom had sunk to and was just prepared to start afresh when I spied edashtav's elegantly detailed report.

My, it was a long evening. One can't help thinking that the programme makers might have overegged this particular Scandinavian pudding with four pieces of 30 minutes each plus the 10 minute Delius (a delightful discovery for me and reminiscent of Bantock's Sappho song cycle) requiring fairly close attention. The result was that by the time we got to the Sibelius 3rd most of the life had been sucked out of the hall and I spotted a number of the audience quietly dozing in their seats (or concentrating very hard ).

I have an inexplicable aversion to tom-toms. They seem to infest swathes of modern and contemporary pieces with, to this ear, no discernable musical offering. So when I read in the programme notes that the tom-toms played an integral part in the Norgard 7th I was fearing the worst. Let's just say, I was not disappointed in my expectations. I have not heard Norgard's music before but, for me, it lacked cohesion and was rife with those trademarks of sudden fff, extended ppp and intermittent pings and crashes from the percussion department. The Sibelius 3rd that followed came as a cleansing sorbet to a main course that was sadly lacking in meat.

For a concert that began at 6.30 it was 9.30 before we left the hall and nearly midnight by the time we reached our front door. An extended and tedious journey home never does wonders for my critical facilities so please excuse my ungenerous attitude this morning.

[Ferretfancy]

I hadn't noticed until I heard it live last night how similar the opening and closing passages of the Delius are to the magical beginnings of Sea Drift. Roderick Williams sang it superbly, an artist
who really looks as if he is enjoying every moment.

In a long evening, perhaps it was a miscalculation to start with the elusive Sibelius Sixth, which is a work that in the right hands sounds like no other. On this occasion I felt that it seemed oddly disconnected with the strings rather underpowered in those moments when they needed to make an impact, and the tymps surely too loud throughout. Things were much better in the Third Symphony, but here again the drive towards the big tune in the finale was oddly matter of fact.

There have been some indifferent performances of the Grieg at the Proms in the last few years, notably by Lars Vogt, but Steven Osborne was excellent. He knows that it isn't a good idea to try and dream up a new way of playing such a familiar work, but gave it all the poetry and panache it needs. A lovely performance followed by Schumann's Widmung as an encore.

I'm with Bax-of-Delights regarding the Norgard. Bax, it sounds as if you did not attend the pre-Prom talk in the RCM, so you missed the worst! It was Pseuds Corner Discussion of the worst kind including a performance of Norgard's Sixth String Quartet which made me flee the hall, although I did stick it out to the end of the piece. I certainly have no problems listening to new works, but I seem to have been listening for sixty years or so to this kind of stuff, and it hasn't improved much. In fairness, the symphony had its moments, and I quite like tom toms, but I was sitting on the floor to listen, preparing myself for Ivor Novello, who we have to admit could write a good tune!

[An_Inspector_Calls]

The Grieg was excellent, the rest disappointing. Edashtav is about right on the Sibelius. The Delius was the biggest disappointment since elsewhere Roderick Williams is excellent in English songs (e.g the Naxos Finz and Irelandi recordings). It was all just slightly rushed, and surely the last 'in my fashion' shouldn't be so abrupt.

Exellent sound from the Albert Hall again - and I'd never thought I'd say that, but the HD stream has made all the difference.

[heliocentric]

I find it impossible to get excited about Sibelius, but for me Nørgård's music starts at "interesting" and gets better. I hadn't heard his Seventh Symphony before but I found it disappointingly middle-of-the-road, especially compared to the much more individual and memorable Second, Fourth and Fifth, apart from a few moments here and there: the melodic material and the structural progression of it seem arbitrary, as did the juxtaposition of consonant and dissonant sounds (is that what you meant by "Schnittkesque", edashtav? because otherwise I couldn't hear any connection really), and the tuned drums sound like they were tacked on afterwards to the kind of orchestration and rhythm that someone with Nørgård's imagination and ability could do in his sleep. I can imagine that a more energetic performance might have more of an impact, but though I found myself disapproving of the tone of ferretfancy's "this kind of stuff" which "hasn't improved much" over sixty years, I have to agree with him completely in this case!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Bax, it sounds as if you did not attend the pre-Prom talk in the RCM, so you missed the worst! It was Pseuds Corner Discussion of the worst kind

But, Ferret, if we don't like a piece, any enthusiastic comments on it sound "pseudy" to us - references to "magical beginnings of Sea Drift", for example. (How many "beginnings" has it got???!!)

I was sitting on the floor to listen, preparing myself for Ivor Novello, who we have to admit could write a good tune!

Some of "we" don't feel such compunction. Sorry.

[heliocentric]

if we don't like a piece, any enthusiastic comments on it sound "pseudy" to us

Very good point.

[Ferretfancy]

But, Ferret, if we don't like a piece, any enthusiastic comments on it sound "pseudy" to us - references to "magical beginnings of Sea Drift", for example. (How many "beginnings" has it got???!!)


Some of "we" don't feel such compunction. Sorry.

Fair enough, but at the talk we were asked to consider the technical aspects of the piece, and Norgard's thinking about its construction, which might have given us some pointers, but the actual experience of the music bore little resemblance to the advance analysis. I try to let myself get defeated by the intricacies of new music, but I do not feel that I should have to be a highly trained musician to approach its difficulties.

As for Ivor Novello, I'll admit I was persuaded by a friend to give the late Prom a try. In the event it was a witty and affectionate look at the career of a man who was once a very popular figure, with some good singing and Halle musicians who took the trouble to do it well.

[edashtav]

I hadn't heard his Seventh Symphony before but I found it disappointingly middle-of-the-road, especially compared to the much more individual and memorable Second, Fourth and Fifth, apart from a few moments here and there: the melodic material and the structural progression of it seem arbitrary, as did the juxtaposition of consonant and dissonant sounds (is that what you meant by "Schnittkesque", edashtav? because otherwise I couldn't hear any connection really)

Yes, partly heliocentric but also the polystylism: I heard , if not Ivor Novello, bits and pieces of Jazz, of musicals such as West Side Story, some tiny woodwind cells that reminded me of Sibelius, ... and my list goes on. PN has developed the sly humour that makes Schnittke so fascinating. That aspect of his music was particularly marked in the Saxophone Quartet heard in the afternoon talk. I've rarely chuckled so much at a piece of contemporary, "serious" music. I do wonder if the CD of the 7th symphony makes more sense of his score. The BBC PO seemed to play all of its notes in the right order, but did the conductor understand the music? From his interpretations of the two Sibelius symphonies, I had my doubts.

[heliocentric]

the actual experience of the music bore little resemblance to the advance analysis

But I find that whenever it's suggested that I should hear "magical openings" in Delius or whatever! Over and above that, though, many listeners have the idea that hearing a someone talking about how a piece of music was written is necessarily going to tell them something meaningful about what they're going to hear, which it isn't (although presenters and indeed composers often behave as if it is), any more than an architect informing you about the materials used in a building is going to tell you much about the experience of being in it. Anyway, I didn't hear the introduction in question so maybe I'm off on completely the wrong tack here.

Edashtav: I see what you mean about the polystylism, but I think there's an audible difference in approach between Schnittke "importing" materials into his music and what Nørgård does which is more by way of bending his own idiom towards such materials, if that makes sense, the distinction between lifting a bit of Mozart into one's own piece and what Beethoven does with the Don Giovanni reference in his Diabelli Variations. But maybe that's a distinction without a difference...

[edashtav]

But I find that whenever it's suggested that I should hear "magical openings" in Delius or whatever! Over and above that, though, many listeners have the idea that hearing a someone talking about how a piece of music was written is necessarily going to tell them something meaningful about what they're going to hear, which it isn't (although presenters and indeed composers often behave as if it is), any more than an architect informing you about the materials used in a building is going to tell you much about the experience of being in it. Anyway, I didn't hear the introduction in question so maybe I'm off on completely the wrong tack here.

Edashtav: I see what you mean about the polystylism, but I think there's an audible difference in approach between Schnittke "importing" materials into his music and what Nørgård does which is more by way of bending his own idiom towards such materials, if that makes sense, the distinction between lifting a bit of Mozart into one's own piece and what Beethoven does with the Don Giovanni reference in his Diabelli Variations. But maybe that's a distinction without a difference...

I heard the talk live Ferretfancy and found it helpful. At a very basic level, to hear that the tom-tom downward skitter would announce the start and be the piece's final ending ( after several "false" endings) was helpful. Hearing about the great chord of "C major", again, acted as a guide or reference post. What we heard in the String and Sax 4-tets foreshadowed elements in the 7th symphony. [ They were, I agree, easier to comprehend at first hearing, but they did help me through pointing out that the composer had a great mind & something to say. If I did not "enjoy" the evening performance ( and I didn't) then the fault lay either in the performance or my inadequate understang, or both.

To return to polystylism, heliocentric, I understand what you're saying but is not Schnittke's polystylism much greater than those overt, distorted quotations? Many pieces bend styles without their precursors being quoted; the piece, or the passage, is informed by one style or another.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

at the talk we were asked to consider the technical aspects of the piece, and Norgard's thinking about its construction, which might have given us some pointers, but the actual experience of the music bore little resemblance to the advance analysis.

Ah! A pity the composer wasn't there: he is a master at communicating the way his Music unfolds to a non-specialist audience. At the 2002 Huddersfield Festival, a member of the audience asked him to clarify a point he'd made (in connection with his 8th & 9th String Quartets): using the figures of his left hand as a sort of Piano, he sang the opening of the Quartet, pointing out the intervals on this "Piano". He then sang the opening of the next section, referring back with his fingers to the opening, then so on to the next section; all the time his eyes fixed on his questioner until he saw she'd understood - and then, when he'd made the point clear, giving her and the rest of his audience a huge smile. Not a word passed (except an occasional "You see?" "You hear?") but he "said" more than the programme notes!

(By the way; I do like Sea Drift - especially since the BBC Music Mag cover CD last May!)