Prom 19 (28.7.12): Gudmunsen-Holmgreen, Shostakovich, Langgaard & Tchaikovsky

[HighlandDougie]

[QUOTE=
Why the applause after the 3rd movement of the Tchaikovsky 6,did they not know what was coming?[/QUOTE]

Alas, I suspect not. There is a very fine performance on the Concertgebouw's Digital Radio Channel conducted by Andris Nelsons and, even in Amsterdam, applause breaks out until quickly silenced by Nelsons starting the adagio. Ditto the last time I heard the symphony (earlier this year in Monte Carlo). Maybe conductors should address the audience first and ask them not to applaud - or maybe minimising the break is the way to do it. Great performance by Dausgaard. And I don't think that even Mahler or Shostakovich, never mind Sibelius in his 4th Symphony, to use JLW's eloquent phrase, were ever, "closer to the grave than this". As with Sibelius's 4th, I find that I have to ration my listening to the Pathetique or I end up, well, undone. I can't speak for minutes.

[Petrushka]

I've mentioned before on these pages that the applause after the third movement seems almost to be written into the score. It should be devastating to plunge from the apparent triumph and exhiliration of the march to the depths of despair that is the finale in the twinkling of an eye and the applause heightens that effect. Once you realise this then a live performance without the applause somehow seems wrong.

[Boilk]

I still can't see - yet - why Langgaard called his 11th a symphony rather than an overture.

Is it not fair to say that the sole criterion for what consituted a symphony in the 20th century was the title "Symphony"? There's little else such works have in common, as they range from a minute or two upwards in duration, and from a solo keyboard upwards in instrumentation.

I do think some composers believed that having a number of works called 'symphony' somehow added gravitas to their standing.

[davehsug]

There can't be so many concertgoers who have never heard the pathetique though? I adore the symphony & yet can never quite enjoy it. The knowledge of what is coming means that the march is almost listened to with dread & fear for me. The emotional response to the 4th movement is often unbearable. Still, I am an old softie!

[Bryn]

I've mentioned before on these pages that the applause after the third movement seems almost to be written into the score. It should be devastating to plunge from the apparent triumph and exhiliration of the march to the depths of despair that is the finale in the twinkling of an eye and the applause heightens that effect. Once you realise this then a live performance without the applause somehow seems wrong.

Quite.

[heliocentric]

Is it not fair to say that the sole criterion for what consituted a symphony in the 20th century was the title "Symphony"?

Not quite - the title is also a statement that the piece in question is intended in some way to relate to a certain tradition, even by contradicting some or all of what are deemed to be its characteristic features like instrumentation, duration, division into movements, a general aura of seriousness, etc. Also, many composers prefer generic titles to something more poetic.

[jayne lee wilson]

Not quite - the title is also a statement that the piece in question is intended in some way to relate to a certain tradition, even by contradicting some or all of what are deemed to be its characteristic features like instrumentation, duration, division into movements, a general aura of seriousness, etc. Also, many composers prefer generic titles to something more poetic.

Yes, Helios., a thought provocative of thought...

... where do Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind Instruments fit in to the tradition?
Was Langgaard's 11th a "Symphony of Tubas"?

Shame this concert seems to have attracted relatively few listeners here.. but a heartening and fascinating set of responses. I'll probably be kept awake by trying to decide if I want applause between march and finale in a live Pathetique, or not... but it might become a convention, and then...

[Boilk]

Shame this concert seems to have attracted relatively few listeners here... but a heartening and fascinating set of responses.

I 'Listened Again' today to catch the Langaard (which I knew) and Gudmundsen-Holmgreen, which I thought both enjoyable and rather good (two mutually exclusive phenomona). Was surprised by the composer's age, 80 this year, as it sounded to me like some young post-modernist. Will be giving my WAV file several virtual spins.

[Bryn]

I 'Listened Again' today to catch the Langaard (which I knew) and Gudmundsen-Holmgreen, which I thought both enjoyable and rather good (two mutually exclusive phenomona). Was surprised by the composer's age, 80 this year, as it sounded to me like some young post-modernist. Will be giving my WAV file several virtual spins.

I'll be giving the m4a some stick on the way to work today, (USB stick, that is).

[amac4165]

More time for discussion later I hope, but I must say how brave and right it was for Dausgaard to bring the adagio of the Pathetique in quickly, t

Not as quick a Gergiev and the LSO a few years back !


Otherwise a very interesting concert - Dausgaard has to be one of the most eccentric conductors on the podium - in the 6th without score holding him back in was able to go to town !

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

... where do Stravinsky's Symphonies of Wind Instruments fit in to the tradition?

Depends which tradition is under discussion. The composer clearly intended the title to provoke and reject associations with the post-19th Century traditions (Teutonic and Nationalist) of "The Symphony" (which is why Simpson banned them from his Penguin "Republic" of real Symphonies).

Following a work like Gabrielli's Sonate pian' e forte, however, the connection is clearly audible.

[Hornspieler]

The intensity - the extremity - of Tchaikovsky's 6th was fully expressed in the contrasts Dausgaard emphasised in this performance: light, swift and fluid in the earlier, fearfully hopeful sections of the first movement; followed by weighty, snarling outbursts from the brass.
The stormy developmental episode was almost savage, the orchestral ensemble on the very edge, just as the composer was - resigned to survival, in the smoking ruins of the coda.

The middle movements were built upon a warm and full orchestral response, the strings especially suave and elegant in the con grazia... "it is the ladies and gentleman skating in Moscow" as Klemeperer said. Terrific brilliance and frenetic excitement in the march, just a little too triumphant, looking away from the truth... the tragedy of the finale. The audience's interruption at this junction almost underlined the poignancy of one who knows that triumph, public acclaim, the image of fulfilment - is hollow...

Gosh! I was so busy enjoying the performance that I didn't notice all that at the time. I must listen again on the iPlayer.

HS

[salymap]

I had visitors on Saturday so missed this rather unusual looking programme. I see it's to be repeated on Friday 3rd August at 2pm on R3.

[jayne lee wilson]

Gosh! I was so busy enjoying the performance that I didn't notice all that at the time. I must listen again on the iPlayer.

HS

At least try to be civil, HS...

Perhaps we should just check a box, "like" dislike" "love" "hate".... whoa, that looks like 2 words too many already.

and , man.

[Phileas]

My first post.

I was at this Prom. It was my first, in fact it was my first classical concert (not including the amateur operas my mother used to sing in, a few of which I watched).

I was not surprised by the inter-movement clapping, having heard/seen proms on the BBC, but I was bothered by the spontaneous applause at the end of the third movement of the Tchaikovsky. I had the impression that Dausgaard was irritated, but I suppose he couldn't really have been surprised? It's an interesting idea that the clapping adds something to the contrast between the 3rd and 4th movements.

Obviously, if I start going to concerts more often, I'll have to get used to the audience noise (a mobile phone went off at one point).