Prom 18 (27.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphony No. 9, 'Choral'

[EdgeleyRob]

It's a shame some listeners seem to think they know better than Beethoven how the finale should go - (unless it's just the numbing and wearying effect of over-familiarity)... what else might he have done, after the first 3 movements?

Jayne, I am the least qualified person on the planet to question the great LvB,but I cannot bear to listen to the last movement,for some reason it makes me cringe.
BTW your wonderful posts and reviews are an absolute must read for me,brilliant.Please keep them coming.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Not necessarily, but many conductors of recordings from the 50s, 60s, and 70s played it that way and that's how I like to hear it - personal preference Bryn - with my humble musical background I would not argue with LvB but I go with wahat my ears tell me!

Slow-coach Klemperer actually took the slow movement of the 9th at quite a brisk pace. But a slow movement played quickly can sometimes sound farcical and with all the demisemiquavers, etc., can end up being quicker than the outer movements.

[kernelbogey]

Jayne.... your wonderful posts and reviews are an absolute must read for me,brilliant. Please keep them coming.

[cloughie]

Jayne, I am the least qualified person on the planet to question the great LvB,but I cannot bear to listen to the last movement,for some reason it makes me cringe.
BTW your wonderful posts and reviews are an absolute must read for me,brilliant.Please keep them coming.

Edge - I often cut after the third movement - such a beautiful movement, spoilt by what follows.

[BBMmk2]

Havnt heardthe 9th yet. But personally, I think DB has done a brilliant job withy this orchestra. I( think people forget about the age of these players. I know some of those in it, are older, but they still gav'nt the experiencde of the older musician. Also, sometimes, I think we can tend to be rather pickjy about performances as well!!

[amateur51]

Havnt heardthe 9th yet. But personally, I think DB has done a brilliant job withy this orchestra. I( think people forget about the age of these players. I know some of those in it, are older, but they still gav'nt the experiencde of the older musician. Also, sometimes, I think we can tend to be rather pickjy about performances as well!!

Exactly, BBM - I agree!

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I think that, if I'd been lucky enough to have been in the Hall listening to these performances, I would've counted the complete Beethoven cycle one of the best things I'd ever attended and I'd probably have bought the CD set as a memento. Most of the atmosphere was communicated across the airwaves, but I think that some of the spontaneous details of interpretation that were so effective "on the night" might possibly pale on repeated hearings - not to mention the "slips".

A highlight of this Proms Season nevertheless, and the inclusion of the Boulez works, was an inspired and inspiring idea: once again, Barenboim proved himself equal to the hype.

[heliocentric]

Maybe it's my naturally sunny disposition

That reminds me of someone.

So many of the comments on these concerts seem to me so mean-spirited: about Barenboim's conducting, about the orchestra, about Boulez's music, about the programme combinations... so often performances are talked about as if they're supposed to have some kind of definitive quality, rather than being momentary events in a certain time and place, whose beauty as experiences is so intimately connected with the unrepeatability of each moment. I enjoy listening to recordings but somehow their ubiquity seems to have a tendency to "dull the senses". I've never been much of a Boulez fan, finding his music limited in vision compared to other composers of his generation (especially Stockhausen and Xenakis), but hearing these performances in close succession and in the company of the Beethoven symphonies (not forgetting the quintet for piano and winds, which I also enjoyed a lot, having not given it any attention in the past) has served to sharpen my appreciation of what he's doing and lessen my tendency to wish for something that is (on purpose) not there.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Great Post, Helio!

... now, if only I can persuade Barenboim to programme Carceri d'Invenzione!

[amateur51]

That reminds me of someone.

So many of the comments on these concerts seem to me so mean-spirited: about Barenboim's conducting, about the orchestra, about Boulez's music, about the programme combinations... so often performances are talked about as if they're supposed to have some kind of definitive quality, rather than being momentary events in a certain time and place, whose beauty as experiences is so intimately connected with the unrepeatability of each moment. I enjoy listening to recordings but somehow their ubiquity seems to have a tendency to "dull the senses". I've never been much of a Boulez fan, finding his music limited in vision compared to other composers of his generation (especially Stockhausen and Xenakis), but hearing these performances in close succession and in the company of the Beethoven symphonies (not forgetting the quintet for piano and winds, which I also enjoyed a lot, having not given it any attention in the past) has served to sharpen my appreciation of what he's doing and lessen my tendency to wish for something that is (on purpose) not there.

In complete agreement with you and with ferney in #52, helio - millions of people have listened to/heard pieces by Boulez that they would have run a mile from otherwise (maybe I'm one of them ) and they've been rewarded.

And the juxtaposition with the Beethoven symphonies has been a revelation too - great programming imho

[Ferretfancy]

I was absolutely delighted to see that Daniel Barenboim was one of eight specially chosen peacemakers to carry the Olympic Flag to its position at last nights opening ceremony. He must have had a very rapid journey to Stratford after last night's Choral!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I was absolutely delighted to see that Daniel Barenboim was one of eight specially chosen peacemakers to carry the Olympic Flag to its position at last nights opening ceremony. He must have had a very rapid journey to Stratford after last night's Choral!

It only takes 7 minutes fron St. P.

[cloughie]

Just listening to the Choral movement - refreshingly good!

[Osborn]

With young athletes from just about every country in the world within an hour of two of embracing the Olympic Ideals of Friendship, Excellence and Respect, there wasn't a cat's chance in hell that Barenboim would deliver a monumental Ninth chiselled out of granite.

These things are so important to Barenboim that I expected him to be very fired up and that everyone had better be alert to the possibility of finding themselves careering into hairpin bends on two wheels. Enormous credit is due to everyone in the WEDO (woodind & brass particularly), the bright and supple sounding chorus and the sheer class of DB's favourite (and stellar) cast of soloists.

A very memorable performance on a very special night, exhilarating, thrilling and uplifting. And I too, was touched to later see this remarkable man in the stadium as a member of the team carrying the Olympic flag.

[kernelbogey]

..... so often performances are talked about as if they're supposed to have some kind of definitive quality, rather than being momentary events in a certain time and place, whose beauty as experiences is so intimately connected with the unrepeatability of each moment....

I too have been disappointed, not to say shocked, at the sniping here at these Barenboim/ WEDO performances.

We've become accustomed - have we not? - to 'perfect' studio recordings. I've mostly preferred to hear recordings of live performances with all their coughs, occasional wrong notes and other mistakes, because the living quality of the performance is so palpable: one reason that I like TTN so fervently.

So what if Barenboim takes a conservative approach, or this band of young players has an off night, a moment of poor ensemble or weave about on their seats? Who are we to demand 'perfect' perfomances from every Prom? Surely the Proms are first and foremost - still! - for the audience in the hall: some posters have confirmed that the excitement was palpable in the RAH - and we are fortunate to be able to participate without stirring from home.