Prom 18 (27.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphony No. 9, 'Choral'

[Bryn]

I will be giving it a miss tonight in favour of:

Friday July 27th 2012, 7:00pm

New Music for a New Oboe

Christopher Redgate (oboe) and Stephen Robbings (piano) present a programme of contemporary oboe music including the world premiere of Sam Hayden's surface/tension, the London premiere of Richard Barrett's Fold (London Premiere), Dorothy Ker's Clepsydra, The Well Tempered Oboe by Edwin Roxburgh and Christopher Redgate's own Capriccio. If you're up for contemporary and can manage a few microtones, don't be anywhere else!
Tickets: £10 (£8 concessions) on the door or from 020 7534 0710
More information: www.christopherredgate.co.uk and www.21stcenturyoboe.com

at Schott Music, Great Marlborough Street.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I will be giving it a miss tonight in favour of:


at Schott Music, Great Marlborough Street.

That is absolutely fascinating. I'm already considering trading in my beautiful Rigoutat oboe for this one.

[amateur51]

I will be giving it a miss tonight in favour of:


at Schott Music, Great Marlborough Street.

Is that venue air-conditioned?

[Bryn]

Is that venue air-conditioned?

It in the basement, with a large air vent to the upper level. I think I would want any air conditioning turned off to kill not noise.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Returning to Beethoven 9, I repeat what I implied earlier - it would have been an excellent opportunity to play a 15 minute Boulez piece before the interval.

[Vile Consort]

The onlt reservation I have about the finale - and it's only a tiny niggle - is the over-elaborate vocal counterpoint for the soloists. I've bever heard anyone else mention this, so I'm probably in the minority.

... which doesn't come off because of the amount of wobbling the soloists engage in in order to get over the orchestra. I've never heard a performance in which it was possible to tell what notes they were singing.

[salymap]

I know it's a great work and a great last movement but, for some reason, I find it very difficult to listen to now.

As someone said, it's the singers that ruin it.


And stand by for a major moan from a certain horn-player - he used to have wonderful rows on the old boards with Mario of Malta. Does anyone else remember ?

[amateur51]

I know it's a great work and a great last movement but, for some reason, I find it very difficult to listen to now.

As someone said, it's the singers that ruin it.


And stand by for a major moan from a certain horn-player - he used to have wonderful rows on the old boards with Mario of Malta. Does anyone else remember ?

Sadly yes

[Bryn]

That is absolutely fascinating. I'm already considering trading in my beautiful Rigoutat oboe for this one.

Ah well. Best laid plans, and all that. I got to the bus stop well before the scheduled time for the 16:00 702 Greenline to depart for London. At 16:25 I gave up waiting. The combination of Olympic traffic and the continued closure to all heavy vehicles (except Olympic vehicles of course) of the horribly poorly maintained elevated section of the M4 indicated that I would not make Hammersmith in time to get to get the Tube to the oboe recital. Looks like I will be tuning into the 'Choral' after all.

[Hornspieler]

I know it's a great work and a great last movement but, for some reason, I find it very difficult to listen to now.

As someone said, it's the singers that ruin it.


And stand by for a major moan from a certain horn-player - he used to have wonderful rows on the old boards with Mario of Malta. Does anyone else remember ?

I prefer to say "a difference of opinion"

Well I'm not moaning yet. I'm in the middle of the third movement and so far I have been totally entranced by the orchestra's performance.
Listening to the fourth horn solo, I'm just hoping that the fourth horn is being allowed to play it - it's the only chance he gets to shine throughout the year.
Unfortunately some conductors insist upon the principal horn taking it over. Most unfair! It's gone very well so far and tomorrow on TV I shall see whether DB has
allowed Beethoven to know best in allocating this very important solo passage to the 4th horn (whose low register it encompasses).

Will post again later. The finale has just started. Can't hear the cellos and basses at all at the opening statement of the Ode to Joy.

HS

[Ariosto]

I will be giving it a miss tonight in favour of:


at Schott Music, Great Marlborough Street.

You may have Schott yourself in the foot with that one ...

I was thinking of hiring their space but it's far too expensive.

[Hornspieler]

I prefer to say "a difference of opinion"

Well I'm not moaning yet. I'm in the middle of the third movement and so far I have been totally entranced by the orchestra's performance.
Listening to the fourth horn solo, I'm just hoping that the fourth horn is being allowed to play it - it's the only chance he gets to shine throughout the year.
Unfortunately some conductors insist upon the principal horn taking it over. Most unfair! It's gone very well so far and tomorrow on TV I shall see whether DB has allowed Beethoven to know best in allocating this very important solo passage to the 4th horn (whose low register it encompasses).

Will post again later. The finale has just started. Can't hear the cellos and basses at all at the opening statement of the Ode to Joy.

HS

Wow! I really enjoyed that performance! I don't understand why the opening few bars of the symphony and the opening statement of the Ode to Joy were inaudible on my equipment, but the solo quartet was much better than I expected and acquitted themselves very well in that extraordinarily difficult unaccompanied section. (Beethoven ought to have known better)

The chorus were youthful and enjoyable. A bit of a stretch for those high notes just after they started, but who cares?

Not just the best of this Beethoven cycle, but (in my own humble opinion, of course) a country mile better than we have heard from DB and the WEDO in these last few days. (and no Boulez to dull the wits halfway through.)

Hornspieler

[jayne lee wilson]

It's a shame some listeners seem to think they know better than Beethoven how the finale should go - (unless it's just the numbing and wearying effect of over-familiarity)... what else might he have done, after the first 3 movements? Here he breaks the bounds of symphonic form(s), by encompassing almost all of them in one span, and inviting the chorus to the party too. If they and the soloists sound a bit wild, isn't that the point? Dionysus is getting us all drunk here!

I'm tempted to say that, far from ruining the performance, it was the singers - or at least the NYO Chorus - that carried it to a tumultuous conclusion tonight! The end of the piece nearly always lifts me and left me in tears again! All the players rose to the occasion here.

No, I still wasn't happy with Barenboim's interpretative approach (I've had problems with it ever since No.3) - those agogic ritardandos just before the coda to (i) and in the finale's recitative, (which almost came to a standstill) surely affect the flow of the music too much, whereas at other times there appears to be no "interpretation" happening at all - just the right notes in the right order (broadly speaking...). As the adagio's 2nd variation tried to get going, I found myself shaking my head at the tempo: "no, not like this..."

The little wind flourish just before the end of the scherzo was a rare reminder of the fresh, playful and expressive touches we heard far more of in Symphonies 1, 2 and 4. So I'm left with mixed feelings about this event - this cycle. But at least Beethoven's message to the world was - after some struggling - given truly joyful, triumphant expression tonight.

[jayne lee wilson]

Sorry about my first line HS - our messages crossed in the posting! It wasn't intended as such a tart response to your own, but directed more generally towards those who find fault with the 9th's finale, on this and other discussions... (I take a long time over all my typos and other corrections, hence the delay...)

Yes, the dynamics at the start and at the beginning of the Ode to Joy were indeed at the extreme end of pianissimo! I could just hear them, whilst pondering the conductor's interpretative manipulations yet again. The ppppp(recurring) start of the Ode was followed by a true example of "hairpin" dynamics too...

[amac4165]

Yes, the dynamics at the start and at the beginning of the Ode to Joy were indeed at the extreme end of pianissimo! I could just hear them, whilst pondering the conductor's interpretative manipulations yet again. The ppppp(recurring) start of the Ode was followed by a true example of "hairpin" dynamics too...

I was in the 4th row in the hall and I could barely hear it either !

It finished as it started really - first movement wallowed around like a an over laden ship in heavy seas - but it got better and the ending was pretty good. I think bits were beyond the youth chorus though

now watching the opening ceremony - looks a bit mad !