Prom 13 (24.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphonies Nos. 7 & 8

[Bert Coules]

I wonder what he's like when he doesn't rate a concert,or does he rave over them all?.

It might be simply that I've been listening at the wrong times, but even the slightest hint of any lack of enthusiasm from a R3 announcer seems to be a real rarity. It was wonderfully refreshing on Breakfast last week to hear the guest dismiss most of Mozart as "prissy posturing" or something similar.

Bert

[Hornspieler]

"I can't stand anymore! It's the heat - and those damned drums!"

"Have another shot of quinine old chap - steady your nerves."

Yes, come to think of it there is quite a lot of quinine in tonic water. I think I'll just indulge in a large G & T.

Actually, to be serious, I thought this was by far the best of the WEDO/Barenboim performances so far.

A lively 8th symphony. Maelzel's metronome set to a rifle brigade marching pace in the 2nd movement, an elegant and stately 3rd movement and a quick dash for the bar (the one that serves drinks) in the finale.

The 7th symphony was rhythmically sound in the 1st movement. The slow movement was, I thought, a little wayward in tempo and dynamics, but what followed was a jolly romp to a triumphant finish.

Audio engineers still don't seem to have got the balance right and a lot of the quieter moments disappeared from my speakers (4 of them) without trace, so a little editing of my recording is called for.

So, well done WEDO on this occasion.

HS

BTW: I think I heard someone making funny noises on a violin between the two symphonies, but I didn't take any notice.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Please note that postings about this concert have been moved here to avoid confusion.

[Ariosto]

Personally I was not so keen on 8 but thought No 7 was quite good.

[pilamenon]

Personally I was not so keen on 8 but thought No 7 was quite good.

Just back from the concert - agreed, 8 was rather too bass heavy and leaden, not light and dancing enough for me. However, No 7 was simply electric - hairs on the back of the neck at times.

I quite liked the violin with electronics, too.

[Frances_iom]

Having just heard Mr Service's announcement at the end of the 7th, I really do fear for his health come the climax of the 9th. I'm not sure that the human constitution can handle that much excitement.

Bert

I presume he is in training for his next post as raceing commentator possibly combined with introducing the Operas from the Met - I've missed the opening bars of several as I just cannot tolerate his style of 'presentation' - if I want barkers I can find the local street market.

[kernelbogey]

I thought last night's performance of the seventh one of the most exciting I've heard. However, having said that, I generally avoid listening to Beethoven symphony broadcasts because of a sense that over-exposure diminishes my enjoyment. I have the experience of too much Beethoven in the last few days, so I chose to listen only to N8 last night live, and returned to N7 later in the night on iPlayer.

Reverting to views of Tom Service: I've already posted that I find his style exhausting - but this is his normal style, and it's just how the man is. In his favour, I will say that his remarks in back-announcements have been specifically about the performance, and whether one likes them or not that seems to me an improvement over those presenters who stick to scripts which can sometimes come over as bland. I would also say that he is more qualified than some presenters one could name to comment on the performance. Whether it's right, in general, for presenters to do so is another discussion.

[Hornspieler]

The 7th symphony was rhythmically sound in the 1st movement. The slow movement was, I thought, a little wayward in tempo and dynamics, but what followed was a jolly romp to a triumphant finish.

Audio engineers still don't seem to have got the balance right and a lot of the quieter moments disappeared from my speakers (4 of them) without trace, so a little editing of my recording is called for.

So, well done WEDO on this occasion.

HS

.

Yes, but ...

I've just listened to Nº 7 again. More intensely than last night, when I was concerned with the almost inaudible quieter passages (as for instance before the brass enter, in the beginning of the finale) so I was maybe more objective. And what I did find tedious was the excessive number of repeats in the scherzo. It was worse to my ears than one of those repetitive Bruckner scherzos and I thought we would never arrive at the next movement.

Pity the poor 2nd horn, having to growl away down there repeatedly; only to be faced with the prospect of having to do it yet again (and again, and again).

HS

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And what I did find tedious was the excessive number of repeats in the scherzo. It was worse to my ears than one of those repetitive Bruckner scherzos and I thought we would never arrive at the next movement.

But Beethoven wrote those repeats. Is it possible that he made a misjudgement? I think so. This may sound disrespectful to one who is arguably the greatest composer of all time, but anyone can make a misjudgement. Conductors generally feel the same way and omit some of these repeats in the scherzo. When Solti recorded the complete cycle with all repeats, he said the one movement he was convinced that a repeat should be omitted was in the Scherzo of the 7th, but he included it just for the sake of completion.

[Ferretfancy]

From about a third of the way back in the Arena, Barenboim's dynamics were very wide, in fact this has been characteristic of all the ones I have attended. He gets lovely soft playing, but no doubt it is an engineering challenge. There used to be a practice way back when the studio manager would fade to a more distant set of mics for the climaxes, and go in close on the quieter passages. This was a very disconcerting effect, and seems to be less common now.

I have a bee in my bonnet about one aspect of No. 7, but I am not speaking as an expert. In the third movement the arrival of the trio is marked assai meno presto, a little less fast, and yet nearly all performances slow down to something like half the original speed at this point. Why is this ? Barenboim doesn't turn it into a near funeral march as some do, but he was still slow last night. Toscanini in his pre-war recording does what seems to be marked in the score and it keeps the music aloft in the way that more recent performances do not. I'm not a Toscanini enthusiast generally, but he scores high in this symphony.

[Osborn]

I've just listened to Nº 7 again. And what I did find tedious was the excessive number of repeats in the scherzo. It was worse to my ears than one of those repetitive Bruckner scherzos and I thought we would never arrive at the next movement.

Not found tedious here:

http://boulezian.blogspot.co.uk/

"A good test of a performance of the Seventh is whether the second return of the scherzo seems a little much. No such problem here, for not only was the relationship between scherzo and trio perfectly paced – no nonsense of barely slowing here – the playing was so alert, so responsive, that details one had undoubtedly heard before sounded newly-minted."

[Tevot]

Hello,

I thought Number 7 was magnificent - a really exhilarating experience. Of the Boulez pieces I found Anthemes II to be the most immediately engaging of the works to be played thus far - though I reckon I will also listen again to Derive 2 as the performers certainly seemed to give it their all.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

[johnb]

I feel a little uncomfortable saying it but I found No 7 worthy rather than exhilarating but, of course, I was listening via the radio and I know how different things can sound and feel in the hall.

One good thing is that it spurred me on to uncover Franz Konwitschy's recording of Beethoven 7 dating from the 1950s/60s. What a performance! Now this is what I call truly exhilarating!

I found this in an online review. Yes, I know that reviews on the web can be iffy, to say the least, but it gives a flavour of the performance:

These performances speak from an age when the meeting of boundless ambition and humility did not seem a paradox. Kleiber (père et fils) recorded 5 and 7 and each is highly regarded. Konwitschny has that same animalsitic excitement but is neither breathless nor hysterical.

I do urge anyone who uses Spotify to give it a listen (it is definitely there - I was listening to it via Squeezbox). The sound isn't exactly wonderful but you will very quickly forget all about that.

[Simon Biazeck]

assai meno presto

actually means very much less fast

poco is, of course, 'a little'. As for how to interpret it, well, it's up to personal taste. Barenboim, as ever, is a master at controlling rhythmic structure, and for me his direction in these matters always seems organic. I am singing for him in the 2013 Proms, so I will have first hand experience - too exciting! Lucky you, to hear it live! Best wishes.

[Hornspieler]

Hello,

I thought Number 7 was magnificent - a really exhilarating experience. Of the Boulez pieces I found Anthemes II to be the most immediately engaging of the works to be played thus far - though I reckon I will also listen again to Derive 2 as the performers certainly seemed to give it their all.

Best Wishes,

Tevot

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/music/proms/9427223/Proms-2012-Prom-13-West-Eastern-Divan-Orchestra-Albert-Hall-review.html

HS