Prom 12 (23.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphonies Nos. 5 & 6

[jayne lee wilson]

Was the heat, and/or fatigue, a factor in the approach tonight? Were conductor and orchestra playing well within themselves?

Interpretatively, the sweetest, softest, most romanticised view of the Pastoral I can imagine, let alone hear... "extreme", I noted re. the caressing legato coda to (i)... legato sostenuto through the peasants' dance and the storm too... the final climaxes in (i) and (iv) didn't radiate or blaze... and yes, obvious intonation problems even to my forgiving ears.

Very sad about saying all this, but the 5th... lacking almost all drama or bite, far too unvaried in dynamics, shorn (perhaps mercifully) of all repeats... and couldn't the engineers have done something about the thumpingly annoying timpani?

So (with possibly difficult conditions in the hall duly noted), the least successful concert for me in this cycle. After enjoying so much of 1-4 (reservations about Eroica (i) and (ii) as noted) it gives me no pleasure to report my negative, even dispirited, reaction.
(listening on HDs as usual.)

[pilamenon]

Hated the piccolo.

Well that was the only dubious bit for me in what I thought was a tremendous account that fully deserved the ovation it got. They really made the first movement sound revolutionary this time. The scherzo lead-in to the finale was exquisite - and those cellos in the trio section!

The second Boulez piece - Messagesquisse - was a revelation, had me gripped throughout. I'm totally signed up to this Beethoven/Boulez theme. And this orchestra plays so beautifully.

Negatives: A loose connection on a speaker during the Pastoral. Symphonies in the wrong order again. And the presenter needs to stop constantly over-egging the pudding, and quieten down.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

And the presenter needs to stop constantly over-egging the pudding, and quieten down.

Look on the BBC Radio 3 website. Pride of place for each concert is not the programme, the music or the performers. It's the presenter.
"Presented by Tom Service" is apparently more important than Boulez, Beethoven, Barenboim or the WEDO.

You may notice that I lift concern descriptions from the BBC website, but invariably edit out the presenters, whom I consider to be unimportant. However, the BBC must see things differently.

[Tony Halstead]

Hated the piccolo

Exactly WHY, Alison?
We normally never hear it except for the last few notes of its silly upward scales... maybe you hated it because
1) it was ( mostly) audible
and
2) It was playing at 'Berlin pitch' ( A=445) whereas the rest of the orchestra was sitting at about A=442 ( albeit a bit uncomfortably).

[amac4165]

Was the heat, and/or fatigue, a factor in the approach tonight? Were conductor and orchestra playing well within themselves?

Interpretatively, the sweetest, softest, most romanticised view of the Pastoral I can imagine, let alone hear... "extreme", I noted re. the caressing legato coda to (i)... legato sostenuto through the peasants' dance and the storm too... the final climaxes in (i) and (iv) didn't radiate or blaze... and yes, obvious intonation problems even to my forgiving ears.

Very sad about saying all this, but the 5th... lacking almost all drama or bite, far too unvaried in dynamics, shorn (perhaps mercifully) of all repeats... and couldn't the engineers have done something about the thumpingly annoying timpani?

I quite liked the 6th too although I am guessing not everyone's taste -

The 5th was a bit of a white knuckle ride - in the hall - plenty of drama but not necessarily the right kind !

The timpani are no better in the hall so I guess the engineers can only work with what they are given !

amac

ps complete kerfuffle as they changed the program to have the 2 Boulez before the interval but not many in the hall had cottoned on to this

[Alison]

We all know the piccolo is there, it needs to played sensitively, there's no need give it a quasi concertante role. To get the player to stand up seems misguided. Barenboim entirely to blame and trust Tom Service to get it all out of proportion too.

[kernelbogey]

I heard bits of both symphonies, and all of the Boulez, and was almost converted to the latter.... I intend to listen again on iPlayer to all of it.

If I recall correctly, Klemperer doubled the piccolo in LvB 5. So I was attentive to this and thought it fine.

I find Tom Service's manic style exhausting to listen to. He has taken the custom of presenters not leaving silence to the extreme of filling it with as many words as possible. Having said that I thought he did his best to be an advocate for Boulez's music and for the decision to include it with Beethoven. I wish he would just relax a bit.

[Hornspieler]

Oh Dear!!!

It goes from bad to worse.

Before penning my own thoughts, I think the reactions of others are worth comment:

#13 Bert Coules: “I'm completely allergic to Barenboim's Beethoven. That "Force of nature" performance (to quote the announcer) has just left me completely cold, uninvolved and unmoved”

I quite agree.

#14 amcluesent: “IHMO, didn't warrant the wild reception at the end of the 5th!”

Mine too!

#15 Alison: “Hated the piccolo.”

So did I (See message #19)

#16 Jayne Lee Wilson: “ … the least successful concert for me in this cycle. After enjoying so much of 1-4 (reservations about Eroica (i) and (ii) as noted) it gives me no pleasure to report my negative, even dispirited, reaction.”

We had our high hopes shattered Jayne. Did you really enjoy that tea-break in the middle of the Shepherd’s dance?

#17 pilamenon: “The second Boulez piece - Messagesquisse - was a revelation, had me gripped throughout. I'm totally signed up to this Beethoven/Boulez theme. …..And the presenter needs to stop constantly over-egging the pudding, and quieten down.

Well the first Boulez piece was, to me, just like the clarinet work the previous evening. What we used to call ‘musical masturbation’.

#19 waldhorn: “…It was playing at 'Berlin pitch' ( A=445) whereas the rest of the orchestra was sitting at about A=442 ( albeit a bit uncomfortably).”

Yes. Sharp as a tack (see my final note on that subject)

#21 Alison: “We all know the piccolo is there, it needs to played sensitively, there's no need give it a quasi concertante role. To get the player to stand up seems misguided. Barenboim entirely to blame and trust Tom Service to get it all out of proportion too.”

Well spoken

#22 kernelbogey; "I heard bits of both symphonies, and all of the Boulez, and was almost converted to the latter.... I intend to listen again on iPlayer to all of it....
... I find Tom Service's manic style exhausting to listen to. He has taken the custom of presenters not leaving silence to the extreme of filling it with as many words as possible. Having said that I thought he did his best to be an advocate for Boulez's music and for the decision to include it with Beethoven. I wish he would just relax a bit".

And now my own final thoughts:
The pastoral symphony was a huge disappointment for me. The 1st movement was just about okay but the slow movement sounded as if the orchestra were wallowing across a muddy field. Excessive changes of tempo in the scherzo must be put down to the conductor's interpretation
Misguided IMV - Beethoven's music requires no such interference.

In the fifth symphony, all was okay (no more than that) until the scramble of the cellos and basses in the scherzo. Very untidy and it should be within the competence of any bass player who has secured an orchestral position. (Weren't they required to play that passage during their audition?)

Tom Service is a bumbling disaster. What are his music qualifications?

The one shining light throughout this 'Beethoven Fest" has been the superb playing of the principal horn. Accurate, musical and with the sort of beauty of tone which seems to have been lost by so many horn players of the present day.

And now here is a little story to lighten the mood. It is relevent to the foregoing remarls by Alison and waldhorn regarding the piccolo:

We formed a wind quintet in Bournemouth with the purpose of earning some extra cash giving concerts for school children. The format was predictable.

Start with a lively piece and then demonstrate the instruments one by one; talking about their origins and how they are played.

John the flautist was first up. He was always the butt of some humerous digs from the rest of us, which he used to take in good part.
So he showed the old trick of blowing across the top of a milk bottle almost full of water and then showed how emptying the water out by stages lowered the note produced. After demonstrating how this applied to the flute, he reach into his breast pocket and produced a piccolo.

"Can anyone tell me what this is?

"Piccolo, sir"

"Quite right! And do you know why I keep it in my breast pocket?"

Roger, the oboist, intervened with a loud stage whisper:

"So that it remains nice and sharp!"

Have a good day!

HS

[grandchant]

I thought the evening was outstanding. It was a new take on both symphonies; Barenboim said during the interview that he was trying to use the harmonic language to bring about the transitions in the pieces (I think that was the gist of it anyway) and it gave a new perspective; certainly one I'll remember.

[Ferretfancy]

An outstanding evening in the Arena, what's the matter with you lot?

[pilamenon]

I didn't hate the piccolo's prominence, just though it sounded a bit flat, but Waldhorn has explained why that was.

I'm really surprised at how many faults are being found with last night's performances. It was, I suppose, a fairly staid peasant dance, but the storm was very convincing. Still, we all seem to agree about the presentation.

[salymap]

Impossible for a non professional to take in all those points. I think I will continue to record them and listen when it's cooler, the Olympics are over and things are less busy here.

Enjoy our summer, it's 28c today.

[antongould]

Impossible for a non professional to take in all those points. I think I will continue to record them and listen when it's cooler, the Olympics are over and things are less busy here.

Enjoy our summer, it's 28c today.

Oh bully for you in the G of E with your 28C!!

Last night we did have a little sun and I went for a walk in the woods as it filtered through the trees. On my iPod was the Proms Pastoral and it all, sort of, came together wonderfully. Yes it is a piece we have known from the cradle and I must admit I sometimes avoid it like the recent BAL - but has there ever been a better evocation in music, of any sort, of the rural idyll?

[Resurrection Man]

Barenboim does absolutely nothing for me as a conductor and these two concerts have done nothing to dispel that view. Pedestrian. Plodding. Strange changes of tempi. Unnecessary pauses. Lacking in any energy or spark.

As for Tom Service, perhaps he confuses volume with excellence?

EDIT: Just had to put on Chailly and the Gewandhaus to remind me how these symphonies are supposed to be played. Superb.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I wasn't there, so my impressions were affected by the Radio 3 sound. But it seems to have been extremely good in the RAH itself - and that's what really counts.