Prom 9 (20.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2

[subcontrabass]

I have time for Barenboim's bottom heavy modern instruments arrangements as well as Krivine's glorious direction of historically informed performances of these great symphonies. It's the Krivine I'd save from a house fire though.

Bottom heavy arrangements? Barenboim did No. 1 with strings 12/10/8/6/4. Krivine was using 8/8/6/6/4. On my reckoning that makes Barenboim relatively top-heavy in the string department.

[Bryn]

Bottom heavy arrangements? Barenboim did No. 1 with strings 12/10/8/6/4. Krivine was using 8/8/6/6/4. On my reckoning that makes Barenboim relatively top-heavy in the string department.

It's not just a question of numbers, but also of the different instrument and bow technologies, and playing technique. As I say though, I have plenty of time for both. I'd rather not do without either, but if it came to it, the Krivine would be set saved. (That's in preference to any of the Norrington sets (CD and saved BBC TV transmissions, too.)

[subcontrabass]

It's not just a question of numbers, but also of the different instrument and bow technologies, and playing technique. As I say though, I have plenty of time for both. I'd rather not do without either, but if it came to it, the Krivine would be set saved. (That's in preference to any of the Norrington sets (CD and saved BBC TV transmissions, too.)

I agree with you about preferring Krivine, but from the video his double-basses appear to be playing modern five-string instruments, with three out of the four using spade grip and one using a cello grip.

[Bryn]

I was thinking of the CD set, which is quite different in so many ways to those performances on YouTube. He appears to have changed his mind about some of the repeats, for instance. Not sure what information is given re. the instruments used in the performances issued on CD. I will have a look and the programme notes accompanying them.

[Hmm. No specifics regarding the instruments played; just a general statement that the performances are "on period instruments".]

[Alf-Prufrock]

I wish to thank Pegleg for introducing me to the work of Emanuel Krivine, who was merely a name to me before today. I really enjoyed his Beethoven 1 and shall look for some way to buy his CD set cheaply!

Like Bryn, I enjoyed Barenboim's concert too (and his 4 and 3 too) but thought (unlike many here) 1 a touch underpowered.

[Bryn]

I wish to thank Pegleg for introducing me to the work of Emanuel Krivine, who was merely a name to me before today. I really enjoyed his Beethoven 1 and shall look for some way to buy his CD set cheaply!

Like Bryn, I enjoyed Barenboim's concert too (and his 4 and 3 too) but thought (unlike many here) 1 a touch underpowered.

Until his Beethoven CD set was strongly recommended either here or over at r3ok.com, I had never heard of Krivine. However, the recommendation was so strong and well argued that I took a chance and ordered it. What a revelation those readings were, and remain.

[Pegleg]

I wish to thank Pegleg for introducing me to the work of Emanuel Krivine, who was merely a name to me before today. I really enjoyed his Beethoven 1 and shall look for some way to buy his CD set cheaply!

Like Bryn, I enjoyed Barenboim's concert too (and his 4 and 3 too) but thought (unlike many here) 1 a touch underpowered.

You're welcome. I only knew about the Krivine cycle as I always check what free webcasts are on offer at "Cite de la Musique" and have never read the recommendations made here. The entire cycle was available to watch last April. In fact, you can still watch two of the concerts, 4 & 7 and 2 & 6, in full.

http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Genre/musique_classique/4.html

I thought the CDs were at least derived from these live performances, am I wrong? I already owned the MacKerras 2006 set, and other single CDs, so haven't invested in them.

[Ariosto]

A lot of very interesting and informative posts.

I think the HIP versus traditional/modern performances really depends on the listener, and the listeners personal taste and preferences.

It's probably good that we don't all think alike and share the same tastes.

I'm happy to be steeped in the traditional/modern or whatever you like to call it, whereas others prefer HIPP.

See how laid back I am these days and forum friendly ...

[Bryn]

You're welcome. I only knew about the Krivine cycle as I always check what free webcasts are on offer at "Cite de la Musique" and have never read the recommendations made here. The entire cycle was available to watch last April. In fact, you can still watch two of the concerts, 4 & 7 and 2 & 6, in full.

http://www.citedelamusiquelive.tv/Genre/musique_classique/4.html

I thought the CDs were at least derived from these live performances, am I wrong? I already owned the MacKerras 2006 set, and other single CDs, so haven't invested in them.

You are indeed wrong in your assumption, The CDs derive from earlier live performances of the symphonies. The 9th comes from four concerts in three venues in June 2009; the 1st, 3rd, 4th and 5th from four concerts in two venues in December 2009; and the 2nd, 6th, 7th and 8th from two concerts in one venue in May 2010. The televised concerts (all of which I downloaded when they were available in full) date from performances in April 2011, are less inclusive of repeats and adopt tempi varying from those on the CDs.

The CD set is currently on offer (new) at £27.97 including p&p from Desstore, an amazon.co.uk marketplace supplier based in Italy. I can't recommend it highly enough. Over the years I have accumulated a several dozen sets of Beethoven symphonies on LP, Cassette, CD, DVD and download. The Krivine CD set is my favourite to date, and others here can testify to my admiration for conductors such as Norrington, Mackerras, Immerseel et al in Beethoven.

[salymap]

You are all quoting players and not parts I presume. To an ex music librarian, 65432 [parts,notplayers] doesn't sound all that large an orchestra.

And I've never heard of Krivine. Who he please?

[Bryn]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmanuel_Krivine

You can still catch is Beethoven Violin Concerto and Mahler 1 with the Luxembourg Philharmonic on the iPlayer:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/player/b01kpxnv

for the next 2 days.

[Hornspieler]

A lot of very interesting and informative posts.

I think the HIP versus traditional/modern performances really depends on the listener, and the listeners personal taste and preferences.

It's probably good that we don't all think alike and share the same tastes.

I'm happy to be steeped in the traditional/modern or whatever you like to call it, whereas others prefer HIPP.

See how laid back I am these days and forum friendly ...

Beware the Greeks bearing gifts!

[BBMmk2]

Beware of the Trojans to!! (They might sneek in throiugh a horse!!(neigh!!) :)

[Hornspieler]

You are all quoting players and not parts I presume. To an ex music librarian, 65432 [parts,notplayers] doesn't sound all that large an orchestra.

And I've never heard of Krivine. Who he please?

Good morning Sally

6 desks of 1st violins
5 desks of 2nd violins
4 desks of violas
3 desks of cellos
2 desks of double basses

For the woodwind: 3,3,2,2 would indicate

3 flutes (1 playing piccolo)
3 oboes (2+cor anglais)
2 clarinets
2 bassoons

For the brass: 4,3,3,1 would indicate
4 horns
3 trumpets
3 trombones
1 tuba

Clear as mud?

Don't start me off on percussion!

HS

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I can't recommend it highly enough. Over the years I have accumulated a several dozen sets of Beethoven symphonies on LP, Cassette, CD, DVD and download. The Krivine CD set is my favourite to date, and others here can testify to my admiration for conductors such as Norrington, Mackerras, Immerseel et al in Beethoven.

Took the words from my out of my own keyboard, Bryn!

Until last Christmas, Karajan reigned supreme in my affections and admiration. Krivine's sublimely joyful performances have seldom been off my player in the past eight months - Music-making that's made me (sour, cynical old windbag that I am) weep with delight!