Prom 9 (20.7.12): Beethoven Cycle – Symphonies Nos. 1 & 2

[Alison]

It was lovely to have the Second Symphony taking the limelight as it so rarely does.

Completely satisfying it its own right, I especially love the moments of tenderness in the final movement,

superbly conveyed by Barenboim and his players.

[amateur51]

But in the end we like what we like and dislike what we don't like, to be totally obvious.

Bravo Ariosto!

Could we perhaps have this as a motto for the FoR3 Board?

[ahinton]

Perhaps not quite...? In Boulez' own DG recordings, Repons (1981-84),runs to 42'31, Sur Incises (1996-98) to 37'06, and the orchestral elaborations of the Notations (6 so far) to over 37'00 in Robertson's Naive Recording...

Fair comment - I suppose that I was considering anything over around three quarters of an hour and large scale and ambitious , so Répons indeed doesn't fall far short.

...but how does one listen to Derive 2? As an endless melody - or a dozen endless melodies! As a jazz improvisation, as a hugely expanded trio sonata from a New Musical Offering, a continuous flow of invention and evolution... so one listens for the Moment, the sudden epiphanies of colour, rhythm, texture... do you travel through Derive, or arrive anywhere at its close...?

The Beethoven Symphonies 1&2 received lovely performances. Dare I suggest this was a German sound of what we may (or may not) call the old school - the strings full, warm and rich, the wind solos clear but blended in (never too individualised) the brass well rounded into the orchestral texture. The whole sound is founded on a firm bass of centrally placed lower strings (violins antiphonal) and yes, an emphasised timpani - on HDs this latter appeared centre right, louder and, well, "thumpier" than usual. Was it positioned unusually on the stage? Or was it emphasised by the placing of the strings? It didn't trouble me unduly, but I was more aware of its slightly hollow resonance than usual. Barenboim's readings were "mainstream" (up to the 1990s at least!) but beautifully moulded in slow movements and with attack aplenty in the scherzos and allegros.

It strikes me yet again that however we view "tradition" (some may wish to see these performances as from an older tradition, but if you accept the philosophy of HIPPs performances you might see it as newer...) all that matters is the quality of the performance itself. Tonight, that was of a high order.

When you then consider the creation of this orchestra, and the character of the man leading it, the rapprochement with the great tradition of Beethoven performance becomes a very special thing.

I was well and truly put off Boulez by the piano sonatas in my earliest days as a starter musician and was raised on this and much of the rest of what was going on in and around the Darmstadttery of the day before I'd heard anything much else, but it all began to wear very thin after a time and the more other music that I disovered the thinner it wore. Boulez - of whom I once heard somoene saying "you know that Schönberg once said that Cage was not a composer but an inventor? - well, I tell you, Boulez is not a composer, he's a reviser!" - has written some things since then that are truly individual and well worthy of rapt attention and, in so doing, he seems to have reconnected not only with Debussy but also with Roussel, Messiaen and Dutilleux as part of a recognisable 20th century French tradition. How to listen to Dérive 2? - as "a continuous flow of invention and evolution", as you suggest, I think - and, perhaps, as a dozen or more endless melodies! - but I do think that there is a strong sense of "arrival" at its close, which somehow stands out as being at apparent odds with the kind of stream-of-consciousness approach that has (perhaps not?) led to it. On another front, how to listen to it is in a performance like last night's, when every player and Barenboim were firing on all cylinders and some more cylinders that they might not even have realised that they possessed; an astonishing and unflagging tour de force of a presentation of what, after all, must be the most phenomenally exhausting work just to get around, let alone make hang together with a sense of logical progressions and strutural control. No credit can suffice for those magnificent performers yerterday. I agree with all your other observations, too!

[kernelbogey]

ahinton no 48
Rather confusingly you have omitted to indicate that your 3rd, 4th & 5th paras are actually a quote from JLW! (The last button on the right of the bar above the post provides this facility.)
BW, kb


[Edit: please ignore as ahinton has now corrected the post.]

[amateur51]

ahinton no 48
Rather confusingly you have omitted to indicate that your third para is actually a quote from JLW! (The last button on the right of the bar above the post provides this facility.)
BW, kb

I knew I'd read it before ....

[kernelbogey]

I feel lucky to have lived and experienced the time of Daniel Baremboim - both as a pianist and a conductor, and overwhelmingly as a wonderful musician.

For anyone who missed it I can commend DB's interview with Roger Wright on R3 (available on iPlayer) - absolutely fascinating. He is such an intelligently articulate musician.

[ahinton]

ahinton no 48
Rather confusingly you have omitted to indicate that your 3rd, 4th & 5th paras are actually a quote from JLW! (The last button on the right of the bar above the post provides this facility.)
BW, kb

Worse than that (as you may note now that I've corrected it)! - half of it was in the wrong place and order! Sorry about that! It should read OK now and as originally intended...

[pastoralguy]

My only worry was that the two oboists might be involved in a nasty collison at some point. Does it really aid musicianship to weave around like a shadow-boxer in this way?

HS

The Berlin Phil wind players seem to the masters of this 'expressive' way of playing. I remember a great quote from Jascha Heifetz when observing a mobile fiddle student - "If you want to move around a lot go and be a dancer!"

[pastoralguy]

I look forward to the rest of the Beethoven cycle - well almost all of the rest!

HS

Surely not the greatest of the Beethoven symphonies, Hs?! (To be found at the top of this post...)

[salymap]

Surely not the greatest of the Beethoven symphonies, Hs?! (To be found at the top of this post...)

Where is Mario from Malta when he is needed.

[subcontrabass]

As arrangements for modern forces the Beethoven performances worked well enough for me, though the soft timp. beaters were just not on.

There is always the problem of balancing the parts. To my taste there were far too many strings (even if there were not as many as the larger professional orchestras often use).

[amateur51]

Where is Mario from Malta when he is needed.

Off on a major sulk because of unwise words (mine amongst them) about killing wild birds

[BBMmk2]

Who on earth are those cretins who Suzie Klein is interviewing? No dress sense and full of their own importance. The interview with Barenboim - now THAT was worth watching.

Welcome to the boards Mrs alpensinfonie!!

These peoiple that the beeb bring out, never do have dress sense imo!!

That Bouklez was something else last night!! DB certainlky has the feel to it and looking back to the LvB cycle, | think this is going to be a top drawer cycle as well!

[Ferretfancy]

I'm watching on BBC4.

1.
Can regular Prom-goers clarify for me whether the tacky backdrops are in evidence at all concerts in the RAH, or just at those which are televised?

2.
Why are there no on-screen indications of (a) the title of the piece about to be played and (b) tempo markings for the individual movements?

I've not seen any televised Proms yet, but the projected colours behind the orchestra are there for the non-screened events, and the floor of the Arena now has a large circular floor mural ( Cue crits! Murals go on walls! ) Anyway it's very gaudy, and probably hidden from the cameras when the place is full.

[Ariosto]

That Bouklez was something else last night!!

I must have missed the Bouklez. Which piece was that?