Prom 7 (18.7.12): Handel – Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I managed to catch it in Listen Again. Really exciting sounds, though I had a tough time finding the right page on my score, as there's no "set" order of movements as no Handel manuscript survives. The tuning of horns . Somehow, it seems inappropriate for the oboes and strings to be bang in tune, while the horns play the same notes - almost. I know that's the way it was "then", but it doesn't have to be now, except as an interesting experiment.

[Nick Armstrong]

I recognised what fine natural, intentionally un-'corrected' tuning was in play

How wonderful it must be to possess such heightened powers of perception!

Do you ever get vertigo when assuming that lofty position, Bryn?

[Bryn]

How wonderful it must be to possess such heightened powers of perception!

Do you ever get vertigo when assuming that lofty position, Bryn?

It is not as if Niquet's approach to these Handel works had not already been a topic of discussion here, well before the Prom. The CD and SACD issues are both accompanied by copious information about the instruments used. Similar information is contained within the texts of the online programme notes for the concert, i.e. "recognised" as in "comprehended". My recognition was based on repeated listening to the CD and SACD issues over the past few years. No 'rocket-science' is involved. Just a follow-through of curiosity. I find is quite insulting towards last night's performers than their intonation is called into question without the little investigation of the circumstances that is involved in reading the programme notes.

[bluestateprommer]

... too much of this sounded a shambles to my ears. Great gusto, great strings and no doubt the energy and visual spectacle carried it along if you were there. But the massed winds and massed horns too often sounded competely out to sea, like the bad old days of 'historic instruments' (and 'authentic' perhaps to the sort of performance that happened on the Royal Barge when these were first performed). Plenty of energy and some rough edges: fine...

Having caught this on iPlayer, I'm with caliban and waldhorn as to their overall impression. All the press reviews (which have been pretty well nigh uniformly rah-rah - hmmmmm) have noted the energy of the conductor, which I don't think anyone doubts. However, the frequency of brass blats was enough to make me cringe more often that I really wanted to. Ensemble Matheus, they're not. However, since this was a free Prom, for those in the RAH, one can't complain of value for money.

[pilamenon]

Having had a second listen, I can't agree with the nay-sayers. Quickly got accustomed to the sound of the fruity winds, and found every suite a delight. A thoroughly enjoyable concert.

[Il Grande Inquisitor]

Having had a second listen, I can't agree with the nay-sayers. Quickly got accustomed to the sound of the fruity winds, and found every suite a delight. A thoroughly enjoyable concert.

This late night Handel can be enjoyed on BBC2 next Saturday:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lvcnl

[Nick Armstrong]

As for those shoes! What a card that Niquet is.

For "card" read "ludicrously camp, narcissistic plonker". Like a cartoon caricature of the ultimate comedy conductor.

To use his own language: une tête à claques*

*Dire qu'une personne "a une tête à claques" signifie qu'elle a un physique, et un visage plus particulièrement, qui est agaçant et qui donne envie de la gifler. L'expression semble être apparue avant la fin du XIXe siècle

[Bryn]

I blame your mum for your sad failure to appreciate this fine musician's work.

[Nick Armstrong]

I blame your mum for your sad failure to appreciate this fine musician's work.

I have several of his recordings which I rate highly (though not his Handel). I wish I'd never set eyes on him. It gets in the way of the appreciation of which you speak

[ardcarp]

Just watched it on telly. Exhilarating, yes, but I'm sort of with Waldhorn and Caliban. The rough tuning of natural horns in particular is, I suppose, part of the deal; but I must say it really got on my wick after a while.............to the extent I had to stop listening/watching.

I find is quite insulting towards last night's performers than their intonation is called into question without the little investigation of the circumstances that is involved in reading the programme notes.

Well, I hope I haven't added further insult, but sorry, ones ears can only take so much.

Another slight problem I had was that the ornamentation (particularly the trill starting on the upper note on final major thirds) made it sound more like Lully or Charpentier than Handel.

Whatever has been said about academic reasons for the tempo of the Air, it was just..IMVHO...ridiculous.

Being in the RAH and being swept along by the general frenzy was probably fine. But on the telly in my house, nah.

[Bryn]

Just watched it on telly. Exhilarating, yes, but I'm sort of with Waldhorn and Caliban. The rough tuning of natural horns in particular is, I suppose, part of the deal; but I must say it really got on my wick after a while.............to the extent I had to stop listening/watching.



Well, I hope I haven't added further insult, but sorry, ones ears can only take so much.

Another slight problem I had was that the ornamentation (particularly the trill starting on the upper note on final major thirds) made it sound more like Lully or Charpentier than Handel.

Whatever has been said about academic reasons for the tempo of the Air, it was just..IMVHO...ridiculous.

Being in the RAH and being swept along by the general frenzy was probably fine. But on the telly in my house, nah.

Blame the inadequacies of your own aural sensibilities rather than the performers or the temperature. The performers' tuning was not the problem, but that of twenty-first century ears is, in comparison to those of the 17th.

[ardcarp]

OK. Just going to get my piano tuned to Werckmeister III

[BBMmk2]

Saw this Prom on the tv last night. I have never seen such a flamboiuyant conductor as thye one last night!! Mind you, he knew what he wanted and the orchestra reesponded!

What a guy!

You could almost think that he was dancing his way through the music!!

Great to see and great playing too!

[Nick Armstrong]

Waldhorn and Caliban

I'm very happy and indeed honoured to be bracketed with Waldhorn when it comes to an appreciation of historically-informed performance!

I soldiered on with the concert - I warmed slightly to the preening popinjay of a conductor on two counts: by and large his extravagant gesticulations seemed to be followed by the band, and he had an amusing "faux-naïf" way about him in the interview with the simpering Derham (who was on particularly sickly form I thought :( )

[Mary Chambers]

I was interrupted by a phone call last night, so am watching again on iPlayer. Highly amusing. The horns are certainly making some strange sounds, but I'm enjoying the vivacity of it, and the conductor.......!!