Prom 7 (18.7.12): Handel – Water Music and Music for the Royal Fireworks

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Yes, when you mentioned "Eulenburg", I thought it must be he, and I rushed for my own copy - only to find that I only have his edition of the Fireworks!
Fiske is (usually) a scrupulous editor, checking different sources very carefully and presenting his "findings" in the prefaces of the scores. Perhaps he had an off-day? Or perhaps there is a contemporary edition with Presto marked?!

Possibly? But I do vaguely recall some scholars who advocated a fast tempo for this movement, arguing on musical terms that it was rhythmically in a dance style, not because Handel wrote "Presto". As far as I am aware, neither Walsh nor Arnold has a "presto" marking.

[Bryn]

I buy many HIPP recordings, but none of them are Norrington's.

Your very considerable loss.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

But I do vaguely recall some scholars who advocated a fast tempo for this movement, arguing on musical terms that it was rhythmically in a dance style, not because Handel wrote "Presto". As far as I am aware, neither Walsh nor Arnold has a "presto" marking.

Yes, I like it played quite sprightly: it is an Air, after all. When Petti-Sing says of Nanki-Poo before his execution that "he whistled an air did he", I presume she means that her presence inspired an easy nonchalance in him, not that he was attempting delaying tactics!

[JohnSkelton]

In the old BBC Messageboard daysl I remember commenting on the over-enthusiastic HIPPster editor, who wrote the word "presto" the beginning of the famous Air in the F Major Water Music Suite. I understand that neither of the contemporary manuscripts have any such indication.

According to Hogwood's book on the Water Music and Royal Fireworks Music which I gave a Google Books link for "the Presto suggested in Aylesford and later printed sources for the following Air will be more than welcomed by generations of listeners bored by the sentimental and even funereal tradition." "Suggested" - there's some C18 source for the marking, apparently.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

That's certainly interesting, though I confess that I'd rather a tempo indication was omitted rather than "guessed at" or "suggested". A tempo indication in brackets would seem to be more honest.

[JohnSkelton]

That's certainly interesting, though I confess that I'd rather a tempo indication was omitted rather than "guessed at" or "suggested". A tempo indication in brackets would seem to be more honest.

Yes I agree. It gives the appearance of being the composer's marking, which as such it certainly isn't. I guess a critical edition would be more scrupulous (or should be).

[Bryn]

Anyone know the situation regarding Arena arrangements for this Prom? Is it the usual queuing? I note that it is listed as "Free" and is also sold out, but does that apply re Arena and Gallery Promenade tickets too?

[David Underdown]

For previous free concerts day and season ticket queues have operated in the usual way. I haven't seen any specific about this one though

[David-G]

Assuming that the queue works in the usual way, does anyone have any idea what time one should arrive to queue for this late concert, to be reasonably sure of getting in? Thanks.

[Ferretfancy]

David-G

There are numbered queue tickets issued for the first concert of the evening, and those hold good for the late concert. The hall is emptied after the first concert, and we then form a new queue with our numbered tickets for re-entry, with season ticket holders admitted first.

The Arena and Gallery Promenades are not usually so full for the late concerts, people do have trains to catch or an early start at the office the following. I would suggest that you come and join the queue tonight at about 9 o'clock, that's half an hour before the first concert ends. That's about an hour before they let us back in, As you won't have a numbered ticket, you will follow on after the season ticket holders, but you should be assured of a decent position.
I hope that helps, it should be an enjoyable end to the day!

Bws.
Ferret

[PhilipT]

The hall is emptied after the first concert, and we then form a new queue with our numbered tickets for re-entry, with season ticket holders admitted first.

Ff, I'm surprised at you. The Season Ticket holders are NOT admitted first. I hope you meant "numbered ticket holders are admitted first, in ticket number order".
There's also the slight wrinkle that Gallery Season Ticket (and Weekend Pass) holders are permitted to remain in the Gallery between concerts, but this does not apply to the Arena.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

I missed the concert.

I must steal a chance to listen to it tomorrow, or on the Radio 3 repeat.

Any comments for the lucky ones who heard it?

[euthynicus]

Any comments for the lucky ones who heard it?

It was all great fun, done with wonky French tuning and terrific elan. It even persuaded me that Fireworks can be done with strings if there are enough of them and they don't attempt over-sophisticated phrasing. The tempi were all quick, of course, but they made sense after their fashion.

[David-G]

In the end I decided that I did not have time to go to this Prom, but thank you very much for the helpful advice Ferretfancy, it will come in useful on another occasion. Instead I listened on Radio 3. The concert was highly enjoyable, the brass sounded a little strange at times, but there was terrific energy about the whole thing. Alpen, you should definitely try to catch it. Apparently it will be televised on BBC2 on 4 August.

This was the first time that I have listened to Radio 3 on HD internet on my hi-fi system, via my new Arcam rDAC. Highly impressive! It seemed to me that there was that extra bit of clarity in the sound and in the stereo image, compared with FM.

[Nick Armstrong]

I love Handel, I love energetic 'HI' performance, I'm a brass player and I love rasping massed brass...

And yet... too much of this sounded a shambles to my ears. Great gusto, great strings and no doubt the energy and visual spectacle carried it along if you were there. But the massed winds and massed horns too often sounded competely out to sea, like the bad old days of 'historic instruments' (and 'authentic' perhaps to the sort of performance that happened on the Royal Barge when these were first performed). Plenty of energy and some rough edges: fine... but I thought this teetered too far towards cacophony.

It'll be interesting to see how the TV cameras and microphones picked it up. And it would be interesting to have Waldhorn's opinion if he heard it!