Prom 4 (16.7.12): Respighi, Ravel and Adams

[Barbirollians]

I think I have enough Emperors ! Brendel, Fischer, Perahia, Arrau, Barenboim , Kovacevich , Gilels , Fleisher ,Horowitz,Solomon, Katz, Rubinstein , Solomon and Pollini .

Sounds fascinating though . I have a great deal of time for Casadesus in Mozart.

[AmpH]

Barbirollian & AmpH: If you like the Emperor this Kovacevich/Davis way, then IMO you should try the 1962 Casadesus/Rosbaud/Concertgebouw performance - the resemblances are IMO striking: very powerful but nevertheless poetic.

Thanks for the tip Roehre.

[Bryn]

I think I have enough Emperors ! Brendel, Fischer, Perahia, Arrau, Barenboim , Kovacevich , Gilels , Fleisher ,Horowitz,Solomon, Katz, Rubinstein , Solomon and Pollini .

Sounds fascinating though . I have a great deal of time for Casadesus in Mozart.

What? No Schoonderwoerd?

[Serial_Apologist]

I never liked Feste Romana - even before reading Respighi composed it as a tribute to Mussolini.

[johnb]

Seconded. I was listening in the car, on the way home following in after-work drink and a couple of games of pool. I found the Ravel very disappointingly played.

The problem I had with the Ravel was the balance between piano and orchestra. The gorgeous woodwind solos in the slow movement were rather submerged under the piano filigree. Exactly the same thing happened when Uchida played a Beethoven piano concerto some time ago so I guess the default for the company doing the sound on Radio 3's OB is to over-emphasise the piano at the expense of the quieter dialogues between soloist and orchestra.

[Bryn]

The problem I had with the Ravel was the balance between piano and orchestra. The gorgeous woodwind solos in the slow movement were rather submerged under the piano filigree. Exactly the same thing happened when Uchida played a Beethoven piano concerto some time ago so I guess the default for the company doing the sound on Radio 3's OB is to over-emphasise the piano at the expense of the quieter dialogues between soloist and orchestra.

Listening again today, via a reasonable system at home, I was struck by the very different acoustic perspective in which the piano and orchestral instruments, especially the woodwind, appeared to reside. Not simply a question of balance, but of distinctly different presence.

[Barbirollians]

What? No Schoonderwoerd?

Splutters ! Nope and no fortepianos at all !

[Hornspieler]

Listening again today, via a reasonable system at home, I was struck by the very different acoustic perspective in which the piano and orchestral instruments, especially the woodwind, appeared to reside. Not simply a question of balance, but of distinctly different presence.

I believe that we were told beforehand that Imogen Cooper had asked for the piano to be sited behind the woodwind, so maybe the woodwind mics were picking up the piano notes as well as their own; but listening at home, I was not particularly aware of any piano/orchestra mismatch.

HS

[hmvman]

Hornspieler, the piano was at the front of the stage for the performance and the woodwinds were well back at the base of the first tier. From where I was sitting in the stalls it gave the woodwinds a distant perspective but I didn't have a problem in terms of balance with the piano or the rest of the orchesrtra . I did notice that the mics placed on stage for the piano were a good couple of metres away from the instrument. I don't think the winds had individual mics but there were mics suspended above the middle of the stage. The percussion section had various individual mics. I shall be interested to listen to the broadcast sound for comparison.

[Hornspieler]

Hornspieler, the piano was at the front of the stage for the performance and the woodwinds were well back at the base of the first tier. From where I was sitting in the stalls it gave the woodwinds a distant perspective but I didn't have a problem in terms of balance with the piano or the rest of the orchesrtra . I did notice that the mics placed on stage for the piano were a good couple of metres away from the instrument. I don't think the winds had individual mics but there were mics suspended above the middle of the stage. The percussion section had various individual mics. I shall be interested to listen to the broadcast sound for comparison.

Thanks for that hmvman.

I must have misheard the interview between KD and Imogen Cooper. I did think it was a bit strange at the time.

Re the John Adams piece:

I could understand why it appealed to the young members of the orchestra. A bit of fun and a jolly romp for all, but I was reminded very much of the sort of music that Morton Gould used to write for the American High School bands; so offering it to Dudamel was understandable, but I cannot see it taking a place in the concert repertoire.

HS

[doversoul1]

Hornspieler,

I must have misheard the interview between KD and Imogen Cooper. I did think it was a bit strange at the time.

I thought I’d heard that too. The presenter made a point that the stage was being rearranged and it was rather unusual that the piano was place at the back or something to that effect.

[jayne lee wilson]

HS and DS, you're quite right - the presenter did clearly describe the layout as unusual, with piano behind the winds... when it began I was a little puzzled to hear a conventional-sounding balance. On HDs at least, the piano didn't seem unduly forward. But the performance seemed undistinguished and I soon gave up on it...

[hmvman]

If any of you look at the Proms Facebook page, there are some photos of this performance (as well as others) on there now. I'd clearly mis-remembered the layout in my earlier post and I see from the photos that the woodwinds were positioned on the first tier not at the base of it and it appears that there were some spot mics for them too.

[affenkopf]

I enjoyed the Adams (through iPlayer), haven't listened to the other pieces.

However: City Noir raises for me serious questions:
-is Adams' recent music becoming increasingly superficial?
-are his brilliant composition technique as well as his brilliant orchestration becoming brilliant but empty gestures?

Listening closely to this score leaves me with a taste of sweet whipped cream: enjoyable, but don't take a second helping immediately, as that might make you sick.

Someone called this "dreck" (msg #21), which is a nice but rather cowardly way to avoid calling it straightforwardly sh*t. Though I disagree with this opinion, I certainly can appreciate where it comes from.

Well, the piece is about LA so superficiality seems appropriate.

[Roehre]

Well, the piece is about LA so superficiality seems appropriate.