Prom 76 (8.9.12): Last Night of the Proms 2012

[VodkaDilc]

Having now watched to the end, I take back all criticism. What a surprise (I'm sure it wasn't in the Prospectus) to hear the wonderful Britten National Anthem.

A question for even older oldies than me: Auld Lang Syne was described as "the traditional conclusion". I first recall it under Loughran; does it go back further? I've a feeling that little was made of it, except a private thing between the promenaders. I think the orchestra would leave and the TV coverage fade out while it was sung. Perhaps that made it more personal for those involved. (Haven't some recent conductors tried to conduct it?)

[VodkaDilc]

And, on reflection, modern usage diminishes almost to the point of extinction any difference between the two words anyway.

Bert

I'm guilty there, I'm afraid. And I'm normally a bit of a pedant.

[Prommer]

I wish the BBC suits hadn't been so timid about Mark Elder's intention of taking the jingoism out of the last night.

Well he tried to make a fuss, the BBC then sacked him, but he nevertheless popped up a couple of years ago conducting an unreconstructed Last Night, dressed like a Cunard waiter, apparently having become decoupled from his principles in the intervening years!

[marvin]

Well, up to a point although the Tchaik is still a great concerto, whatever you think, but yes, the Glazunov is a fine work too.

I don't think I inferrred that the Tchaikovsky wasn't a great concerto it's just that I don't want it, or parts of it played so often. Simples!

[salymap]

I'm pretty sure that Auld Lang Syne wasn't 'official' in the 1940s to late 60s but picked up by groups of prommers.

[Ariosto]

I don't think I inferrred that the Tchaikovsky wasn't a great concerto it's just that I don't want it, or parts of it played so often. Simples!

I'm pleased that you corrected me on that one, marvin. By the way, it's only Simon that's simples on here!!

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

A question for even older oldies than me: Auld Lang Syne was described as "the traditional conclusion". I first recall it under Loughran; does it go back further? I've a feeling that little was made of it, except a private thing between the promenaders. I think the orchestra would leave and the TV coverage fade out while it was sung. Perhaps that made it more personal for those involved. (Haven't some recent conductors tried to conduct it?)

It sounded brilliant under Loughran. I'm not sure who orchestrated it.

[Alison]

Any comments on Nicola's Bruch, Ari ?

[Ariosto]

Any comments on Nicola's Bruch, Ari ?

I'm afraid I missed the whole of the LNoftheP's.

I've been a little more impressed with Nicola in chamber music recently, and have avoided the concertos. It's very hard to compete in the concerto class, as there have been so many great players who score very highly.

I heard on CD Review yesterday some clips from Isabelle Faust who I've only ever heard of but have never listened to before. Some of it was OK but a lot left me cold, especially the concertos.

I supopose I could listen to Nicola on iPlayer but ...

[Ariosto]

"Any comments on Nicola's Bruch, Ari ?"

Well, I have listened, (to most of it) and for what it's worth I'm rather dissapointed - in fact not very impressed at all.

Mike, in a previous post pointed out the vibrato problems. Nicola has big left hand problems, in my opinion, but what do I know.

The last movement was far too fast and extremely inacurate - you can't get away with such approximate playing and bad intonation. And this is one of the more playable concertos. (I'll just add that her detached bowing in the last mvt of the main rythmical motive was always very rushed and unstable. Not so bad when it was in one legato bowing).

By the way, what rubbish from Katie Derham. The pegs are nothing to do with Stradavari - I've got similar ones on my fiddle. This is where the announcer's ignorance really shows. And all that stuff about Nicola only trying the Strad for 15 minutes is total bullshit. You may have an opinion in 15 minutes, i.e. I like this, or I don't like it, but it takes many hours, even weeks, of playing, to be certain.

I suppose when you hear the outstanding players of the past and present playing these concertos, you begin to get an idea of what is good and bad. Listen to the sound production and bow control of James Ehenes, and the brilliant left hand, and the quality of his phrasing, and you realise who are the real players, and who are the strugglers.

[PhilipT]

May I sully the discussion with a few facts?

1) The correct word is "will", not "shall", whatever any of you might think. It's the correct word because it's the word printed in the programme. That is what we sing and what the chorus sing. I have no time for pedants who think we should sing anything different.

2) The singing of "Auld Lang Syne" is, as someone suggested, an innovation by the Prommers. It's our song of farewell to each other. I'm as keen as anyone for us sing the right words, not cross arms until the second verse ("And here's a hand, my trusty fiere ..") and so on, but how on earth are we to educate 6,000 people, most of whom we've never met before, away from the lowest common denominator? At least this way we all sing the same words. James Loughran did indeed try his best in 1975 or so, by putting the words in the programme and explaining the action in his speech, but (see above) it's our song, not the conductor's - something Leonard Slatkin must have realised after his ghastly attempt to conduct it at his first Last Night.

3) Sean Rafferty saw "beach balls", did he? They were latex balloons, and I should know, as I supplied them and inflated two of them myself. The consensus among those around me in the Arena was that they were a success. One very young (and very well behaved) lady in the Arena had a whale of a time bouncing them around.

[kernelbogey]

Its easy enough to let things go without being condescending..indeed its very important to do that. But criticism is still valid.

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

May I sully the discussion with a few facts?

1) The correct word is "will", not "shall", whatever any of you might think. It's the correct word because it's the word printed in the programme. That is what we sing and what the chorus sing. I have no time for pedants who think we should sing anything different.

It is indeed correct, as these were the words in the original song. "Will" and "shall" are correctly reversed for emphasis, but doing so here would be a kind of arrogance.

2) The singing of "Auld Lang Syne" is, as someone suggested, an innovation by the Prommers. It's our song of farewell to each other. I'm as keen as anyone for us sing the right words, not cross arms until the second verse ("And here's a hand, my trusty fiere ..") and so on, but how on earth are we to educate 6,000 people, most of whom we've never met before, away from the lowest common denominator? At least this way we all sing the same words. James Loughran did indeed try his best in 1975 or so, by putting the words in the programme and explaining the action in his speech,

...so far so good.

but (see above) it's our song, not the conductor's...

Now I know the Prommers like to think they own this Scottish song, but they don't own it any more than the conductor, or the rest of the audience does. However, the conductor is the one person in the hall who could ensure a bit of togetherness, and a little humility often goes a long way.

3) Sean Rafferty saw "beach balls", did he? They were latex balloons, and I should know, as I supplied them and inflated two of them myself. The consensus among those around me in the Arena was that they were a success. One very young (and very well behaved) lady in the Arena had a whale of a time bouncing them around.

[Nick Armstrong]

...Sean Rafferty... "beach balls"

Perhaps they were emerging metaphorically from his mouth....

[Prommer]

What happened to the advertised 'Be my love' of Brodsky?

Also, has Roger Wright now installed 'You'll never walk alone' as a permanent fixture of the second half?