Episode?

[Vile Consort]

I see I am currently listening to "Episode 2 of 2" of tonight's prom, according to the BBC web site. Since when were the parts of a concert called episodes?

I suppose it won't be long before the site tells me the Nielsen symphony is the second of two "songs".

Is this a total lack of sensitivity to the audience, an intentional insult, or just a web site run by people how haven't got a f***ing clue?

[Roehre]

I suppose it won't be long before the site tells me the Nielsen symphony is the second of two "songs".

I am afraid you are too optimistic, VC.
Before long the movements of a symphony will be labelled "songs"

[jayne lee wilson]

Over-reaction alert!

What on earth is wrong with "episode"? "One event or group of events as part of a sequence"... "each of the parts of a serial story or broadcast"
"incident that is distinct but contributes to a whole" all from the OED. "Episode" is no less apt than "part", and the numbering is there to help you find what you want.

I've bought a fair number of classical downloads from specialists like classicalshop, eclassical etc., and none of their movements were ever called "songs"... leave that to Amazon or iTunes...

If the BBC ever got around to indexing the works and movements individually in their iplayer concert recordings, I'd be so pleased I wouldn't care what they called them!

[Vile Consort]

I look forward to the BBC broadcasting the two episodes of a football match, the three episodes that make up a day's play in a test match, going to Stratford for the five episodes of Hamlet (each divided into several episodes, of course), hearing that Murray beat Federer by three episodes to two or that all 76 episodes of next year's Proms season will be broadcast live on Radio 3 with tickets for the opening night marked "Episode 1".

What is wrong with "episode" is that it is not the mot juste. There are proper names for these things in unambiguous everyday use. There is nothing esoteric about the correct terms, and to use the word "episode" to describe half of a concert is to demonstrate a lack of fluency in the language. When did you last hear a native English speaker say "the second episode is about to start, we had better go to our seats?"

The dictionary only describes what the word means when it is used correctly: it does not pretend to state all the rules that determine which usages are correct and which incorrect.

[jayne lee wilson]

Trouble is VC, when it's on the website, "episode" might be the mot juste. But there might be a new one next month or next year.
All of the parts of concerts listed on iPlayer are called "episodes" on the site.
They are parts of small dramas called concerts, and part of a bigger cycle of events called The Proms.
They are real experiences but not actual concerts.

Language evolves like an organism. What's right in the hall need not be right on the web.
It's not called virtual reality for nothing y'know.

[Vile Consort]

Well we will have to agree to disagree on this.

Language does, of course, evolve. But that evolution ought to be an organic thing, not the result of a mistake (or somebody not giving a toss) by the designers of a web site.

Hope you enjoy all the songs in tonight's episode of the BBC Proms. :)

[Eine Alpensinfonie]

Language does, of course, evolve. But that evolution ought to be an organic thing, not the result of a mistake (or somebody not giving a toss) by the designers of a web site.

I completely agree with you. So many of today's linguistic changes are a result of incompetence and general lack of understanding. "Evolution" in this context is merely the result of people copying the people with the loudest mouths.

Even the various tracks of Linguaphone courses are labelled as "songs" by iTunes.

[Northender]

I completely agree with you. So many of today's linguistic changes are a result of incompetence and general lack of understanding. "Evolution" in this context is merely the result of people copying the people with the loudest mouths.

Even the various tracks of Linguaphone courses are labelled as "songs" by iTunes.

Let's hope the use of 'episode' doesn't spread to individual works. How many 'episodes' are there in Beethoven's 'Pastoral' symphony? I suppose you could say there are three: the 1st movement; the 2nd movement; and the 3rd, 4th and 5th movements. In which case, there is arguably only one episode in the Vaughan Williams 6th symphony. 'Ah', you may say, 'we shall continue to call the separate parts of symphonies and so on "movements". 'Fine,' I reply, 'then let's continue to call the separate parts of a concert "parts"'.

[Bryn]

I look forward to the BBC broadcasting the two episodes of a football match, the three episodes that make up a day's play in a test match, going to Stratford for the five episodes of Hamlet (each divided into several episodes, of course), hearing that Murray beat Federer by three episodes to two or that all 76 episodes of next year's Proms season will be broadcast live on Radio 3 with tickets for the opening night marked "Episode 1".

What is wrong with "episode" is that it is not the mot juste. There are proper names for these things in unambiguous everyday use. There is nothing esoteric about the correct terms, and to use the word "episode" to describe half of a concert is to demonstrate a lack of fluency in the language. When did you last hear a native English speaker say "the second episode is about to start, we had better go to our seats?"

The dictionary only describes what the word means when it is used correctly: it does not pretend to state all the rules that determine which usages are correct and which incorrect.

Hmm, I find "episode" far more apposite than "half" when referring to portions of a concert before and after an interval. I don't think I have ever attended a concert where the portion before the interval was the same duration as that following the interval.

[french frank]

Hmm, I find "episode" far more apposite than "half" when referring to portions of a concert before and after an interval. I don't think I have ever attended a concert where the portion before the interval was the same duration as that following the interval.

What about 'Part 1' and 'Part 2'?

Instead of a musical episode they'll be referring to the 'middle eight' next (just as accurate as Performer: Beethoven) ...

[OED: half

'One of two opposite, corresponding, or equal parts into which a thing is or may be divided.'

'One of two divisions more or less approaching equality: esp. with comparatives, as the larger or better half. ']

On the etymology of half, halb &c, the OED says: The oldest sense in all the languages is ‘side’.

[Northender]

Tennstedt's Mahler 8th on EMI Classics can be broken down into twelfths.
May I suggest that, to pre-empt the French from demanding an opt-out, they be offered monopoly rights to 'tranche'?
For those for whom mathematical precision is really important, I suggest percentages (to as few, or many, decimal points as may be deemed suitable or necessary).

[Pabmusic]

Lothar-Erik Klappsaddle's Symphony in G-flat, "Das episodische"

[Northender]

Can I please apply for 'Streiche' to be reserved for 'Till Eulenspiegel' - an episodic work if ever I heard one?

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

Lothar-Erik Klappsaddle's Symphony in G-flat, "Das episodische"

And Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique.

[Roehre]

What about 'Part 1' and 'Part 2'?.

a la Mahler 5: mvts 1+2 = part 1; mvt 3 = part 2; mvts 4+5 = part 3
please note: these are Mahler's subdivisions, not mine