Proms 2012 - pre-launch speculations

[Parry1912]

Barenboim has long been a keen promoter of Boulez' work

I remember seeing the UK premiere of Notations I - IV at an Orchestre de Paris Prom in 1981 (Francois Mitterrand and Margaret Thatcher were also there!)

[Bryn]

I have not checked whether this has already been mentioned, but August 17th looks to be down for Cage's Concerto for Prepared Piano and Chamber Orchestra (John Tilbury) along with other works directed by Ilan Volkov (Iceland Symphony Orchestra?).

Want to here them in Cage now?

http://www.ruv.is/sarpurinn/sinfoniutonleikar/01032012

[NickWraight]

Looking on the Leipzig Gewandhaus Orchestra's website they are due to be in London on 1st and 2nd September this year, no programme details.

[gurnemanz]

They're doing Mahler's Sixth on 30 Aug at Salzburg, which doesn't, of course, mean they will also do it in London, but might be an indicator. I'm surprised to read that it will be their first Salzburg appearance for 25 years.

http://www.salzburgerfestspiele.at/language/en-us/das-programm/konzert/konzert-detail?programid=4666&id=0&sid=95

[bluestateprommer]

I heard a rumour that some Mahler will be programmed - not confirmed of course.

From a look at the Universal Edition website, there's this bit regarding Mahler possibly at the 2012 Proms:

"29.07.2012

Gustav Mahler — Adagio aus der 10. Symphonie
Location: London (GB)
Scored for: for orchestra"

Not a clue which ensemble. Interestingly, from the same search, and getting back to the Barenboim WEDO performances of Boulez and Beethoven:

"26.07.2012

Pierre Boulez — Le Marteau sans maître
Location: London (GB)
Scored for: for alto and 6 instruments
Orchestra: West-Eastern Divan Orchestra
Conductor: Pierre Boulez"

If we mash in the information (lightly edited and translated) from the WEDO's site, there's an obvious date contradiction:

"Friday 20 July 2012, Royal Albert Hall, London
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 1 in C major op. 21
Pierre Boulez: Dérive 2
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 2 in D major op. 36

Saturday 21 July 2012, Royal Albert Hall, London
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 4 in B flat major op. 60
Pierre Boulez: Dialogue de l'ombre double
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 3 in E flat major op.55 ("Eroica")

Monday 23 July 2012, Royal Albert Hall, London
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 6 in F major op. 68 (“Pastoral”)
Pierre Boulez: (a) Mémoriale, (b) Messagesquisse
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 5 in C minor op. 67

Tuesday 24 July 2012, Royal Albert Hall, London
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 8 in F major op. 93
Pierre Boulez: Anthèmes II
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 7 in A major op.92

Friday 27 July 2012, Royal Albert Hall, London
Pierre Boulez: Le marteau sans maître
Ludwig van Beethoven: Symphony No. 9 in D minor, op. 125 ("Choral")
Soloists: Anna Samuil, Waltraud Meier, Peter Seiffert, (bass-baritone TBA)"

It has to be one (26th July) or the other (27th July), of course, not both. So one wonders.

[Resurrection Man]

I just hope that they change the website for the Proms back to how it was a year or so back. Last year's was very user-unfriendly.

[John Skelton]

I once heard Robertson lead the Orchestre National de Lyon, with Tetzlaff, in the Beethoven Violin Concerto. The cadenza threw me off, since it had timpani. I figured out later that it must have been the Max Reger cadenza. Maybe that's what you guys will get then, again assuming that this comes to pass.

It's a version / transcription of the cadenza Beethoven wrote for his version / transcription of the violin concerto for piano and orchestra . Nothing to do with Reger. I think the first violinist to play it was Wolfgang Schneiderhan; subsequently that I know of Thomas Zehetmair, Patricia Kopatchinskaja and Isabelle Faust have chosen it (or cadenzas based on it) for their recordings of the concerto.

[Panjandrum]

It's a version / transcription of the cadenza Beethoven wrote for his version / transcription of the violin concerto for piano and orchestra . Nothing to do with Reger. I think the first violinist to play it was Wolfgang Schneiderhan; subsequently that I know of Thomas Zehetmair, Patricia Kopatchinskaja and Isabelle Faust have chosen it (or cadenzas based on it) for their recordings of the concerto.

Even allowing for the cadenza's impeccable provenance, it still sounds "wrong"! We all know the improvisatory nature of cadenzas, but when one has been done as brilliantly, and organically as Kreisler, that really is the ne plus ultra for this concerto. How can one improve on perfection?

[Bryn]

Even allowing for the cadenza's impeccable provenance, it still sounds "wrong"! We all know the improvisatory nature of cadenzas, but when one has been done as brilliantly, and organically as Kreisler, that really is the ne plus ultra for this concerto. How can one improve on perfection?

You appear to have accidentally omitted the words "to me" which you surely intended to follow ""it still sounds "wrong"". The Kreisler has never sounded "right" to me*, just another worthy alternative. My preference though is for a truly improvised cadenza.

[* To quote Tetzlaff, "In my belief, the solo cadenzas by Frirz Kreizler that are usually performed are alien - in purely harmonic terms, but also in terms of the concept and the idea behind them."]

[Norrette]

I have fears of an Olympic theme...

[John Skelton]

Even allowing for the cadenza's impeccable provenance, it still sounds "wrong"! We all know the improvisatory nature of cadenzas, but when one has been done as brilliantly, and organically as Kreisler, that really is the ne plus ultra for this concerto. How can one improve on perfection?

Beethoven himself left no cadenzas for his Violin Concerto. This publication contains not only the well-known cadenzas by Leopold Auer and Joseph Joachim, but also several which are seldom performed, such as those by Ferdinand David (the first surviving cadenza to op. 61), Dont, Laub, Molique, Novacek, Saint-Saens, Spohr,Vieuxtemps, Wulfhorst, Wieniawski and Ysaye. The majority of these cadenzas are published here for the first time since the 19th century. The cadenzas by Wieniawski and Ysaye are published here for the first time ever.

http://www.violinist.com/discussion/response.cfm?ID=16602

Some of those could be very interesting (and perhaps interestingly disconcerting in how "wrong" they sound, and what that might reveal about reception / performance practice). I'd be especially interested to hear Ferdinand David's* and the Spohr cadenza.

*Ah ha: starting at 022:32 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ2ihBH2l_s

[Panjandrum]

Love the way the Busoni, predictably, comes out sounding like Bach rather than Beethoven.

[ferneyhoughgeliebte]

I'd be especially interested to hear ... the Spohr cadenza.

So would I - and I'd always presumed that it pre-dated the David?

[Panjandrum]

Ok, the ordering:

1. Kreisler ()
2. Ysaye
3. Schnittke
4. Joachim 2
5. Busoni
6. Beethoven
7. Saint-Saens

The Schnittke is practically a free fantasy on themes of Beethoven. Typically post-modernist, it becomes a game of spot the quotation. I noted at least three other concertos quoted (viz, Shos1, Brahms, and Bartok 2) and there may well be others.

[Barbirollians]

I would take Kreisler as a violinist over Tetzlaff any day !